---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, October 14, 1997 11 AM PDT. In attendance: From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker, Sysops: Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Jim Smith, Ken Sutherland, Kevin Shearon, Roderich Bott, Bob Nunn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Davidson: hi Jim, how how ya? Rusty Tucker: hola Bob Nunn: Greetings Bob Nunn: Just got through adding an XLR8 180 to our 7600 120. Makes me want a 604e machine real bad. Rusty Tucker: Hey Hey! Michael Davidson: another speed freak Kevin Shearon: Hi all! Bob Nunn: Yep, gotta tune them buses Rusty Tucker: We've got brush fires here today :( Kevin Shearon: that's ok, they' Rusty Tucker: Schools canceled, and they wer e threatening evacuation at home, but it looks OK now. mikael fredriksson: I found a small problem with TeleFinder User 5.6b2 it will only download 1-2 files from the download folder then close the window and stop downloading.. Kevin Shearon: they'll be put out when California falls into the Pacific Rusty Tucker: :) Jim Smith: Rusty: Hope you have TF backup, off site. Rusty Tucker: which download folder? Kevin Shearon: KRusty did you get my most recent email? Rusty Tucker: about Reno? yes Michael Davidson: probably means the out basket mikael fredriksson: Sorry, "File Basket" Kevin Shearon: yes, why do you think the icons don't come up when web Server logger says they were ok? Rusty Tucker: Could be because of canceling the page via NS. Ken Sutherland: morning Rusty Tucker: I have seen that from a stale local cache too. Michael Davidson: Hi Ken Kevin Shearon: sometimes they load properly, sometimes two load,it's usually different each time Kevin Shearon: so when you checked out our page it just had the image icon where the banner ad was? Michael Davidson: Bob, I remember u used Applescript for some stuff, are you an AS pro? Rusty Tucker: If there are not enough threads you can get that sometimes Bob Nunn: No not really. Just learned how to turn it on and save it out as an app. It really does all that for me. I can change paths etc. but not any thing more advanced Kevin Shearon: I have 5 threads (I think) for the web page and 4 set for downloads Ken Sutherland: rusty, how compatible is TF with Apple's ip5 Rusty Tucker: it should be completely compatible Rusty Tucker: That's pretty low Kevin Kevin Shearon: what should I change it to? Michael Davidson: Thanks Bob (for nothing) :) Ken Sutherland: ta, contact at apple asked me Kevin Shearon: could it have anything to do with the cache settings in TF? Rusty Tucker: We run 20 Rusty Tucker: w/ 5 you can typically have just one visitor loading a page at a time Michael Davidson: (too bad TF doesn't talk PPP, so it communicate with Apple IP) ......enough said Kevin Shearon: ok, I'll change it to 15, so what would you recommend to up the memory requirements to? Ken Sutherland: Michael , u missed ftp as well Ken Sutherland: 8) Rusty Tucker: ur right about the file basket! 2 items and it closes :( Rusty Tucker: add 2 Mb to TF 's allocation Kevin Shearon: ok thanks Michael Davidson: that too Ken ;/ Ken Sutherland: rusty, had any thoughts on the alias issue we talked about Rusty Tucker: aside from disallowing aliases ? no Michael Davidson: lol Rusty Tucker: Or just let aliases work within the predefined paths Ken Sutherland: could realms be a solution Rusty Tucker: that would be the same as limiting to the paths ( access group ) Ken Sutherland: snap Rusty Tucker: As it stands now, when TF encounters an alias, it creates a new access path to it. Rusty Tucker: Lots of sysops utilize that in their setups. Rusty Tucker: That's why aliases stop working if you have too many ( too many paths ) and TF doesn't store more than 25(?) alias paths. Ken Sutherland: i usually hack the cint, could that cause probs Kevin Shearon: Hey Rusty 10 click throughs so far, $3 in the bank! Rusty Tucker: It could cause the server to run out of memory Rusty Tucker: :) Ken Sutherland: shit, i usually hack it up to around 500 paths and give it an extra 3 MB Ken Sutherland: i use lots of aliases in the file base Rusty Tucker: If you think that the alias can be hacked, then you should set the CINT to zero Ken Sutherland: bummer Ken Sutherland: i found in the pass if you had 2 many aliases the server could not resolve them all, is this correct Rusty Tucker: It can resolve them all, it just won't give you access to them all, based on that CINT value. Michael Davidson: Why is it that you have the CINT value set to resolve only 25 aliases then Rusty; is it for memory considerations? mikael fredriksson: I found 2 outside the chat room ;-) Ken Sutherland: ok, think of this, in 1 of my file areas i have 30 + aliases linking various hd's and cd's, what would be Your solution Roderich Bott: Hi, thanks for the special invitation, Michael! Rusty Tucker: Welcome! Ken Sutherland: hi Roderich Kevin Shearon: To many guys in the room Bob Nunn: Hey Roderich Rusty Tucker: Yes, that's the basic memory setting Rusty Tucker: its based on 25 aliases ( each take up 1k per session ) Bob Nunn: Do you think most TF sysops run more than 25? I know that I do. Michael Davidson: Ken, use an alias to the hard drive and the cd itself. I think TF does all right with paths inside those drives then Michael Davidson: I definitely do use more than 25 Rusty Tucker: The alias paths are created in real time as the user encounters the alias Michael Davidson: and put those hd & cd aliases in a folder that is accessible but where the users can't see the folder Ken Sutherland: nope, in my setup i have several folders setup for access limits, not all folders have all alias's and some have restricted 1's, have i missed a easier way Rusty Tucker: So you can have more than 25, and not have the access rejected Bob Nunn: I haven't noticed any real problems though, even though I have more than 50??? Michael Davidson: yes, Rusty, and that's why TF slows down when it cannot resolve the alias Ken Sutherland: i need a coffee, brain is hurting Rusty Tucker: a- it doesn't slow down, b - it does resolve the alias Rusty Tucker: it just does not let you use it. Rusty Tucker: IF Rusty Tucker: a- the alias points to a location that's already been allowed Michael Davidson: I mean, if for example, you have an alias to a cd in a folder, the cd is not loaded, and the user opens the folder, it will slow down for the user Rusty Tucker: Yes, of course. Michael Davidson: (It's a sysop caused problem, not a TF Server problem) Rusty Tucker: The OS tries to mount the CD, so that takes some time Rusty Tucker: Here's an example of the aliases Rusty Tucker: Say that the user has a simple access group, Rusty Tucker: one file area HD:files: Rusty Tucker: And say the limit is 2 alias paths Rusty Tucker: You put 5 aliases in the folder Rusty Tucker: one to the AMUG CD:files: Rusty Tucker: one to the AMUG CD:art: Roderich Bott: sorry - must leave, check http://www.spiderisland.com/~Roderich Bott/ to see why... Roderich Rusty Tucker: one to HD:other files: Rusty Tucker: one to HD:other files:more: Rusty Tucker: So it the user finds Rusty Tucker: the AMUG aliases first, TF will setup access to AMUG files and Art Rusty Tucker: they will be denied access to anything in HD Other files Kevin Shearon: Rusty spml pages...Is it just the main pages that should be labeled with the spml extension or should all the pages have spml extensions? Ken Sutherland: Roderich's page is bust Rusty Tucker: If the user finds HD:other files:more:, then HD:other files: he will be deigned access to AMUG Rusty Tucker: but, if he finds HD:other files:, then HD:other files:more: then AMUG CD:files:, TF will allow the AMUG files access Rusty Tucker: but not AMUG CD:art:, if he finds that next Rusty Tucker: So even though there is 2 alias paths allowed, he can use 3, since HD:other files:more: is a sub dir of HD:other files: Kevin Shearon: its/~Roderich_Bott he has a picture of his newborn on it Michael Davidson: Rusty, say you have 1 AMUG cd and one HD:other files: (with limit of 2 paths); and you put 2 alias in a hidden access folder ; the two being AMUG cd HD:other files:; then.... Rusty Tucker: Congrats Roderich! Rusty Tucker: are the 1st 2 aliases or regular paths? Rusty Tucker: Kevin, Any page you want TF to run the includes in needs to be tagged w/ .SPML or .SPM Rusty Tucker: or you can change .HTML and .HTM to be treated as Active Pages by setting up a handler that way for them Rusty Tucker: Its better for efficiency to limit them to spml Kevin Shearon: still confused, which pages are html or spml, or should I just have them all spml? Rusty Tucker: Any active page needs to be SPML Rusty Tucker: If its HTML, TF does not evaluate the comments for commands Kevin Shearon: so change them all to spml? Rusty Tucker: Yes, change all Active Pages to spml Kevin Shearon: is the comments for commands stuff like " in them Kevin Shearon: active as in pages that the public can access? Rusty Tucker: this starts a HTML comment Rusty Tucker: this starts a SPML command Rusty Tucker: BTW - no PM chat today Kevin Shearon: ok, I think I have it set up correctly, thanks Rusty Tucker: Our next chat will be on Friday at 11 am Ken Sutherland: sore throat Michael Davidson2: Am I the only one that got knocked off Bob Nunn: Try the zinc lozenges Ken, they say they may even stop a cold or at least shorten it. Ken Sutherland: looks like it Michael Davidson2: Can I finish my question now or are you off aliases Ken Sutherland: don't swear at me Rusty Tucker: sorry, i bombed Ken Sutherland: shoosh, boss is back Kevin Shearon: try Fisherman friends for sore throats, taste terrible but work very well Michael Davidson2: Again, Rusty, say you have 1 AMUG cd and one HD:other files: (with limit of 2 paths); and you put 2 alias in a hidden access folder ; the two being AMUG cd HD:other files:; then.... Rusty Tucker: then what? Bob Nunn: Gotta run guys see you Friday. bye Rusty Tucker: are the first 2 real access paths or aliases? Michael Davidson2: you put 5 aliases in a non-hidden access folder; these 5 aliases being aliases of folders on the cd or in HD:other files; .... Michael Davidson2: Real Rusty Tucker: what do you think will happen? Michael Davidson2: Shouldn't the user be able to access all 5 of the seeable aliases Rusty Tucker: yep Michael Davidson2: that is what I do and that is what Ken should do...and Bob Rusty Tucker: He already has access to those areas, so TF does not need to create a new path Michael Davidson2: So, essentially, you give them access to the whole HD or CD, but they cannot see those aliases, the user can only see the aliases that are contained in the larger unseeable aliases Ken Sutherland: oh dear he says, i have 37 file areas split over 10 hd's and 7 cd's Ken Sutherland: any ideas Rusty Tucker: I don't follow that MD. Michael Davidson2: give them access to each of the 10 hds and 7 cds, just hide those 17 aliases in a folder that they cannot see Ken Sutherland: ahh, so spec 1 folder for access Michael Davidson2: then make aliases from those 17 disks and let the user see those Ken Sutherland: the folder aliases are secondary level Michael Davidson2: Yes, I have an area of help files that has also has all the big aliases in a folder that they cannot see Michael Davidson2: Yes, Ken Rusty Tucker: brb Ken Sutherland: ok so we have that sorted out but..... Ken Sutherland: if i don't have the cint high when you open the access folder not all aliases will resolve Ken Sutherland: you get broken aliases about 60 down the lsit Michael Davidson2: TF allows about 25, you only have 17 Kevin Shearon2: hey guys, help make our association some $ and connect to www.ocna.org and click-thru our banner ad Michael Davidson2: 17 disks that is Ken Sutherland: nope but i have 37 file areas Rusty Tucker: Again, just to clarify -- TF resolves all the aliases. Rusty Tucker: It denies access if it needs to create more than 25 paths to describe their locations. Ken Sutherland: no id doesn't if you have a low cint Michael Davidson2: that doesn't matter Ken, you give them full access to the 17 disks, just don't let them get to the 17 aliases. Then you put tons and tons of aliases to folders on those disks in places they can see Ken Sutherland: ok Rusty Tucker: ( 25 or the value of the CINT ) Kevin Shearon2: who's 192.153.153.186? Michael Davidson2: Rusty, isn't what I said correct Ken Sutherland: me Kevin Shearon2: are all the gifs coming up? Rusty Tucker: If the paths/subdirectories are already described in the Access Group, then TF doesn't use any of the 25 extra paths. Ken Sutherland: click is bust in nav3.0.1 Rusty Tucker: Yes MD Kevin Shearon2: you mean it's not an active click thru field? Ken Sutherland: icon is bust Michael Davidson2: Ok, ken, then that is your solution. Rusty Tucker: Kevin, seems like the Agency server is not reliable Kevin Shearon2: I'm using Netscape Communicator 4.03 and it works, why would 3.01 not see it as a click thru? Rusty Tucker: He's getting the broken Image, same as me Kevin Shearon2: Ken just clicked through Rusty Tucker: Maybe they're filtering out non- CA addresses? Ken Sutherland: indeed i did but gif is still bust Ken Sutherland: night night all, time to dreams of aliases Rusty Tucker: BTW- 1 out of times the ad does not show because of your RANDOM #if Rusty Tucker: also, I can't find the host: virtualbillboard.net Rusty Tucker: I guess that's all for today! ------------------------------------------------------------------ October 14, 1997 -- ŠCopyright 1997, Spider Island Software