---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, December 5, 1997 11 AM PST. In attendance: From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker, Sysops: Bob Nunn, Jim Smith, Bob Wright, Jim Leary, Bill Gram-Reefer, Ken Sutherland, Jonathan Paisley, Donald McHose, Rick Palmer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rusty Tucker: <> Jim Smith: <> Bob Nunn: <> Bob Nunn: Hey Bob Wright: <> Rusty Tucker: hola! Jim Smith: Hi all Rusty Tucker: just about ready to release 5.6! Bob Wright: Greetings! Bob Nunn: Was going to install the Beta last night but didn't get in till late. Maybe oughta wait. Rusty Tucker: the next will be the "Freak" ( Final Release Candidate ) , no time limit Bob Wright: Sure wish the author of HDS would show up. he never answers my email and now the HDS has expired :( Rusty Tucker: also Rusty Tucker: I put "Net Connect" for ADSP online in the utils folders Rusty Tucker: It should still work, but I did not test it with sys 7.6 or 8 Bob Nunn: Thanks I think it might be handy until I get my ISDN hooked up. Bob Nunn: Will definitely play with it this weekend and let you know if there is any problems. I have 8 up on all my systems now. Jim Smith: BN: What BS-ISDN problem? Bob Nunn: Bell South Bob Nunn: They kicked the job to the engineering department and all you get is the clerks when you call. They say they are on top of it. Over a week on top of it. Bob Wright: I played the "ISDN GAME" when I first got hooked up, too. Bob Nunn: I have 5 lines going to my house and all the pairs are used. I will cancel two lines once they hook it up. I think they don't want to pull more lines. I would let them kill one and use the pair if that is the problem but you don't talk to who does the work Bob Wright: Basically, the phone company did not have a good understanding of ISDN. I was one of their first customers Jim Smith: Yea, they are like most of the tech-support, have problem takers to write problem up but don't know anything. Bob Wright: RT: I have a real complicated problem here with the Alias situation. Bob Nunn: Yup and that's were its at. I had a phone company buddy who says the guy just didn't want to pull the other line. Bob Wright: RT: I have a folder called "NEWS" outside of the TF Server Folder. Bob Wright: RT: Inside the NEWS folder are several Folders: teachers, Students, etc. each with their own set of aliases for different news items. Bob Wright: RT: I have made an invisible link to the Main News folder. Rusty Tucker: good so far Bob Wright: RT: I still have users who are unable to post in some of the newsgroups. I am suspecting that I need to make my invisible link have settings of "can write to path" checked, correct? Rusty Tucker: yes Bob Wright: If not, I don't know what the problem is. Bob Wright: ahhh...ok, Let me try that. :) Rusty Tucker: make the invisible a Topics path, with posting privileges Bob Wright: I just need to check posting privileges? Or also can write to path? Bob Nunn: be back in a couple Rusty Tucker: Can Write to Path should work Rusty Tucker: also Create Topics if you want that Bob Wright: Ok, I will check both. I thought that was my problem, just wanted to make sure. Bob Wright: RT: are you aware of any problems with the TF Client and Quicktime? Rusty Tucker: nope Bob Wright: RT: hmm...sore some reason my mom's machine must not like quicktime then, because when I load TF, it wont open. Bob Wright: But I have it here on my gateway w/no probs. But I don't have quicktime on the gateway Rusty Tucker: how much mem is left Ken Sutherland: <> Bob Wright: she has 32mb of memory. Jim Smith: RT: what is the red 'brick' icon in TF client? Bob Wright: it will load, but wont launch. Keeps giving me a windows segmentation fault. Jim Leary: <> Rusty Tucker: oh windoze Ken Sutherland: good evening Rusty Tucker: Did you put the QT16 in? Rusty Tucker: and running 3.1b? of TF User? Rusty Tucker: Win95 or 3.1? Bob Wright: she has QT 2.0 Bob Wright: win 95 and the latest version of TF User Rusty Tucker: get the QT from the BBS here, Rusty Tucker: i think it is newer than 2.0, something like 2.01 Bob Wright: I'll check the net. Bob Nunn: Bob W. you can ask Ken about HDS Bob Wright: ok, thanks Bob Nunn: Anyone look at my Madam Zelda? Rusty Tucker: :( not yet, what's the url? Bob Nunn: headgap.com/zelda.spml Bill Gram-Reefer: <> Rusty Tucker: what brick icon? Ken Sutherland: please note for all beta testers of Online Assistant For Telefinder should now use the release version, the beta key is valid Bob Nunn: I probably stomped on some copyright stuff. Just wanted you to see it to make sure it was okay to be up or if I needed to do anything else with it. Rusty Tucker: hmmm... Rusty Tucker: is TeleFinder v5.6 ready for release? A: Madam Zelda advises the outlook not so good ! Rusty Tucker: oh well! Bob Nunn: At least she didn't give you the PMS response. Ken Sutherland: also we have made arrangements with KAGI for payment after your demo key expires Ken Sutherland: hahahaha Rusty Tucker: i did get a "should be thinking about sex" resppnse Rusty Tucker: JS - which brick icon? Jonathan Paisley: <> Rusty Tucker: Hiya Jon! Bob Nunn: Oops that should be shouldn't be thinking about sex all the time. I put that in in response to the usual questions Bill Gram-Reefer: otherwise users will go blind? Jonathan Paisley: hi folks! How's it going? Ken Sutherland: what's wrong about thinking about it Bob Nunn: Perhaps that should be a response as well based on the typical questions. Madam Zelda should be embarrassed. Rusty Tucker: takes time away from doin' it, that's all Jim Smith: While going thru the Sysop topics I got a red 'brick' icon for a few seconds then the beach ball icon, back to the brick then the beach ball, then a message 'network not responding'. I logged off and back on. Rusty Tucker: oh, that Bob Nunn: I think he is talking about the pause icon Rusty Tucker: its a "red modem" Bill Gram-Reefer: brick... Bob Wright: its the DOOM icon ;) Rusty Tucker: meaning that there's a communications problem, very long lag, losing connection or TF hosed. Jim Smith: OH :0 Bill Gram-Reefer: so b9 is good thru 12/26...but 5.6 should be available before that, eh? Rusty Tucker: BTW - TF 5.6 will be online today as the demo version,expiration 1.25.98 Rusty Tucker: The FReC for sysops will be online today, no expiration date Rusty Tucker: uses 5.5 reg codes Ken Sutherland: <> Rusty Tucker: I also posted docs for using the NetCloak PI w/ TF. Rusty Tucker: You need version 5.6 of TF to work with their plug-in. Jonathan Paisley: how do folks like the new file download features of the Mail Plugin 0.9b6? Jim Smith: I still have a problem registering. If I try to register on my server mac it does not remember. So I have to take it to another mac run TF server and register, them move that copy to my server???? Jonathan Paisley: It stores the reg info in a preferences file in the prefs folder in the system folder Rusty Tucker: I didn't get it online yet, I had heard that the demo had expired :( Jonathan Paisley: Try deleting the existing preferences file and try again. It's possible its become corrupt Jonathan Paisley: In this case, it won't be able to save the reg info over a quit/restart of the server Jim Smith: The register problem is with TF server. Bob Nunn: I hope you don't mind. TF for NetCloak. After reviewing it I took out a couple of errors in the html and optimized the graphics and sent it back up. Rusty Tucker: Thanks! Jonathan Paisley: oh ok Jonathan Paisley: cool ;) Rusty Tucker: You mean when you try and put your TF Reg code in, it doesn't save it? Jim Smith: correct Bob Nunn: Didn't get to it last night but if things slow down I may install it remotely this afternoon. Looking forward to it. Rusty Tucker: that's a new one on me! Rusty Tucker: it could be a HD directory problem Rusty Tucker: or bad prefs file/settings file/plug-in conflict Bob Wright: My TF is hosed about right now. Jim Smith: as long as I have a work around it OK. Bob Wright: I have about 10 people online chatting...and the only thing that is being spoken is TRASH. "..comma, aero...space...eight...five zero...." Ken Sutherland: <> Bob Nunn: On Net Cloak, it looks like many of the "advanced" commands are built into TF already. I take it there are other useful features in it? Looks like you could included the rest of them in spml if you wanted? Bob Wright: Why is it saying things like that? No one is typing those letters/symbols Rusty Tucker: I'd restart it Bob Bob Nunn: Someone has a notebook on the keyboard? Bob Wright: Restart Server or Client? Rusty Tucker: either Rusty Tucker: depends on if others see the same Bob Wright: well, they are still chatting so I am assuming the server is ok. But its talking JUNK. Rusty Tucker: do your own msgs display correctly? Bob Wright: yep, but what I type is not what is being spoken Rusty Tucker: re NC, I think the only thing it has that's missing in TF are the "math" functions Rusty Tucker: its missing a lot too. email, dir listings, conferences Bob Wright: I quit TF User and things are ok now. Bob Wright: that was really weird. Possible bug in speech manager or TF? Rusty Tucker: It also has "global" vars. They're very similar to #includes. You can only set them through the NC interface, not in the page like the local vars. Rusty Tucker: The local vars are like TF's vars Bob Wright: Ken: so all I have to do is get HDS in the BBS Util and I will be back up and running? Ken Sutherland: HDS? HDS email or OAT Bill Gram-Reefer: <> Bob Wright: KS: HDS Email....heck, I would like both! ;) Bill Gram-Reefer: whoa...most spectacular crash I've seen in sometime Rusty Tucker: brb Bob Nunn: Ken, when can we get on Kagi so you can get paid? Ken Sutherland: Bob, its in the sysop area, tf cgi & plugins Ken Sutherland: have registered with KAGI Ken Sutherland: just waiting for the docs and the reg app Bob Wright: i don't know what KAGI is. Sorry Bob Nunn: So it will be a short while longer? Ken Sutherland: within the week Ken Sutherland: we will re-release the online assistant package to reflect the registration procedure Jim Smith: Kagi is a fee collector of shareware. Bob Nunn: Great. BobW. kagi.com allows us to pay for stuff in US dollars and Ken to get his money in local currency. Ken Sutherland: eventually 8-) Bob Wright: ahh...great! Ken Sutherland: wonder who gets the interest Ken Sutherland: 8-0 Bob Wright: Bill Gates ;) Jim Smith: VERY SLOW Bill Gram-Reefer: <> Rusty Tucker: they've got a web site ( www.kagi.com ) and accept credit cards and keep some % I guess Bill Gram-Reefer: kagi works the float Bob Nunn: Them finance boys got it figured. Ken Sutherland: You're telling me Bob Nunn: Make it on both sides Ken Sutherland: first time i ever had a yank CALL ME for once Rusty Tucker: + they need to worry about charge backs too Bill Gram-Reefer: they're ex bmuggers actually, one of the guys does contract work for apple Ken Sutherland: (grin) Rusty Tucker: :) Rusty Tucker: shows how much there gonna skim it for Jim Smith: It's cheaper that most other type clearing house. Ken Sutherland: we will probably use them for all our products Ken Sutherland: very true Bob Nunn: What's next in line for you guys Ken? Rusty Tucker: HDS MAIL! Ken Sutherland: release of the tf email plugin Bill Gram-Reefer: the real service they provide and is worth paying for is they have merchant account with bank where most smaller developers can' Ken Sutherland: then maybe the FTP plugin Rusty Tucker: thumbnailer? Bill Gram-Reefer: don't have that leverage to accept credit cards Rusty Tucker: exactly, its a B*tch to get one Ken Sutherland: we have been asked by Apple to make it work with Apple's IP5 and EIMS/AIMS Bob Nunn: I am tied between the thumbnailer and FTP. The thumbnailer would probably do the most for me at the office but I would like the FTP capabilities as well. Rusty Tucker: Cherry Systems in the US will set almost anyone up for a hefty % Jonathan Paisley: I'm working with Jim Leary as we speak on installing the thumbnailer Jonathan Paisley: It works Ken Sutherland: Would like to hear from sysops using non-tf mail solutions to get an idea on what we need to support Jonathan Paisley: Rusty: Did you add the url-encoded filename to the dir.spml parameters? Rusty Tucker: I started out doing CC's 3rd party, 10% per transaction, and he took off with $2k in un paid slips to boot! Bob Wright: Ken: non-tf mail...like HDS? Rusty Tucker: yep, its in 5.6 Jon Bob Nunn: That may save me a tremendous amount of time. We have 30,000 sku's and probably from that close to 10,000 large format tiff images for catalog production. Donald McHose: <> Rusty Tucker: BTW- they're expecting 2 inches of rain here tomorrow. Jonathan Paisley: ok, can u remember off hand what the tag is? Rusty Tucker: don't be surprised if our connection drops Rick Palmer: <> Jim Smith: I have Popsicle about ready, but I do not see a need for it, can anyone see need for it? Rusty Tucker: Its the same Jon, just has the encoding now Jonathan Paisley: 'FILENAME' ? Bill Gram-Reefer: gotstorunbye Ken Sutherland: We plan eventually to expand HDS email to support tf's web server, WebStar and maybe Claris FileMaker, also the most popular mail servers\ Rusty Tucker: FILENAME Bill Gram-Reefer: <> Jonathan Paisley: ok Cool thanks. Jonathan Paisley: The preview plugin works as follows: Bob Wright: RT: how hard would it be to add a feature to chat like IRC where you can have an operator and toggle on/off can chat/cant chat? Bob Nunn: Popsicle was for people with temporary links to the web to handle mail. I am sure there are a few people out there who would find it useful if you were to put it up. Jonathan Paisley: You reference the URL FILENAME.pgif?100 and you get a 100x100 pixel GIF preview in 256 colors. Rusty Tucker: Its available in the server right now from the "Node Menu" Rusty Tucker: sweet Rusty Tucker: ^^ -> BW Ken Sutherland: for all to know, Apple has closed the development beta seeding service due to the large amount of piracy mainly from hotline sites Rusty Tucker: ^-> JP Bob Wright: RT: I mean toggle on/off for ALL users at any given time...'ccept those users who have op privileges Jonathan Paisley: Rusty: Any ideas why the DESCRIPTION field isn't showing up properly in my modified dir.spml template? Rusty Tucker: that's stupid, they should go after the pirates Rusty Tucker: BW oic Ken Sutherland: with dynamic ip, its a pain Bob Nunn: Punish the class for that one kids misdeeds? What were they thinking... Rusty Tucker: JP nope. Ken Sutherland: Bob, it was getting ridiculous Rusty Tucker: Right, maybe BW can figure that logic for us :) Ken Sutherland: at lease i site had an exact copy Ken Sutherland: was handy, much faster than apple's FTP server Jonathan Paisley: rusty: What happens if the 'description' for a file also has a preview? Bob Wright: There are times when you want everyone online to be quiet a few minutes Jonathan Paisley: Does TF Web Server ignore the SitC comment? Rusty Tucker: BW hmm, but you want to close chat to only certain users? Rusty Tucker: what about IM's? Rusty Tucker: JP, it uses the same code as the BBS Bob Wright: here is what I am saying: Rick Palmer: I'm sitting politely and quietly :) Bob Wright: If I am talking about animals to a group. Soon the discussion become TUPOC SHAKKIR... all the kids change topic, I want to get attention, stop all the chit-chat and get back on topic Jonathan Paisley: RT: But does that mean it'll not send the SitC comment if a PICT preview exists for a file? Jonathan Paisley: RT: Sorry, probably not. It is strange though that it's not processing the description Bob Nunn: Jon do u think that your program will work with tiff CMYK files of a good size if they have the previews available (Photoshop) Jonathan Paisley: Yup Jonathan Paisley: Hang on and I'll send you the whole shebang Bob Nunn: Terrific. Will likely be a commercial customer for you on this one. Rusty Tucker: BW OK, so you want to be able to talk to them, but not receive their input? Bob Wright: RT: right...I want them to have to listen at times when I deem appropriate Bob Wright: RT: a menu command which says something like "allow all to chat? YES or NO" or something like that Rusty Tucker: that would take some work, there's nothing in Chat Server to support that presently Bob Wright: RT: ok...just asking. :) Rick Palmer: maybe you could use the UserManager and give permission to talk or listen... Rusty Tucker: it would have to be a deal like one person is "moderator" of the chat room Ken Sutherland: <> Rusty Tucker: and can set privileges for the other users and new users coming in Bob Wright: exactly: I just told a teacher we need a moderator :) Ken Sutherland: <> Donald McHose: If you figure it out via code ,work on a real time solution (face to face) for us at home ;-) Bob Wright: don: hahaha Rick Palmer: Rusty when you get a moment I'd like to clarify on the forms email deal I'm doing Rusty Tucker: ga Rusty Tucker: did u see my response in the conference? Rick Palmer: I used yes Rick Palmer: .. Ken Sutherland: Rusty Q Rick Palmer: Forms are new to me so... Rusty Tucker: ok - a form is defined by the tags. anything between those tags is independent of other forms on a page Rick Palmer: ok Rick Palmer: that is the way web weaver constructed it and I wondered Rusty Tucker: your sample has multiple independent forms Rusty Tucker: the submit button is in a form by itself, so none of the other data is transmitted. Rick Palmer: ok I think I have enough to fix for the moment Rick Palmer: I'll see what I can do Rusty Tucker: you just need to get rid of a bunch of tags and you'll be in biz Rusty Tucker: ga KS Rick Palmer: so I should delete the target statements at each field Ken Sutherland: Any chance of a compilation web site for new sysops to see a good example of what TF can do, more of a typical example rather than the more tech pages we have now Rick Palmer: ok Rick Palmer: thanks man! Jonathan Paisley: I think Bob Nunn's site does that rather well Bob Nunn: I wish I could set up my sysop admin pages so others could see it. Guess I could do a dummy demo group up. Rusty Tucker: hmm, maybe I should put those admin pages into the demo? Ken Sutherland: I'm not criticizing, its just that we have a great product, why not shout a bit louder Ken Sutherland: shout a bit louder Bob Nunn: The ones I sent up are a bit rough but the need for those are really valid. I still need a better way to track web stats though. I agree with Ken though. I would be willing to help if you come up with an alternative site. Bob Wright: Time to head out for the weekend. Catch you all later. Bob Wright: <> Jonathan Paisley: let me know how you get on with the plugin Rusty Tucker: The best alt web site is the TF Demo. They can boot it up and try it live rather than a "look but don't touch" sample. Bob Nunn: I will. This is my busy time so unless something slows down I wont have a lot of time. Perhaps my MIS guy can play with it as well? Rusty Tucker: I'd put them in "as-is" , call' em Bob Nunn's Quick and Dirty admin pages. Rick Palmer: I can attest to that....I found out a bunch of stuff that I didn't know when I went in to look for mailargs examples....I'm a no manual sorta guy Jonathan Paisley: Yah, do what you like with it Jonathan Paisley: It'll stop working in a month or two Rick Palmer: but the demo site is really good Rusty Tucker: Make a page that intros and describes the admin pages, how and why you put them together, and its a very cool demo! Bob Nunn: Will work on it some. I think it would be more useful if there was a demo page like that. Jim Smith: RT: A while back u said something about a HTML editor, what was it? Rusty Tucker: Oh < DreamWeaver from Macromedia? Rusty Tucker: weeks ago? or today? Jim Smith: That it's, weeks. Ken Sutherland: catch u later, time to eat Rick Palmer: Rusty I just looked at the form....I don't see any is the start of the forms statement the --