---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, January 16, 1998 11 AM PST. In attendance: From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker, Sysops: mikael fredriksson, Daniel O'Leary, Jim Smith, Ken Sutherland, Bob Nunn, Russ Reynaga ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel O'Leary: <> mikael fredriksson: <> Rusty Tucker: <> mikael fredriksson: hi Rusty Tucker: hola -- back online! Daniel O'Leary: What the hello is going on... Daniel O'Leary: SI was unreachable until about 7 minutes ago. Rusty Tucker: "defective telco equipment" -- according to netcom, uh hih Daniel O'Leary: Yeah, right... Daniel O'Leary: Anyway, I am here... mikael fredriksson: it stopped 4 hops from SI Daniel O'Leary: Ken is here too... need GOD privs to touch him on the shoulder. Daniel O'Leary: Whoops now he's gone. Daniel O'Leary: I just used my Unix box to keep pinging until I could get a return. Then connected. Rusty Tucker: I was getting tons of hits, until the line went down, its exactly what you hope won't happen Daniel O'Leary: Web page is STILL popular, eh Daniel O'Leary: ? Daniel O'Leary: 834 hit in the first 30 minutes was cool. Rusty Tucker: It cooled down over nite, but it got something like 10k hits yesterday mikael fredriksson: :) Daniel O'Leary: And I swear I was not spoofing anything ....: ) Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, can I do a make over of the TeleFinder SSI.html, to provide links to various sections and tie it into working code segments? mikael fredriksson: I think that the TF 5.6 release info was on all web news sites Rusty Tucker: go for it! Daniel O'Leary: I have done this on my system, but want to go further with it. Rusty Tucker: Yeah, the sites picked up on the news real well! Daniel O'Leary: I think that it will help a lot of sysops out on just how to use the new SPML stuff. Daniel O'Leary: Now if I can hack an X-10 interface, I can control my house with SPML... grin. Ken Sutherland: <> Ken Sutherland: hello all Rusty Tucker: Sophisticated is sending a PowerKey pro, they want me to add support into TF for it Daniel O'Leary: Hi Ken... Glad you could make it... Cool deal rusty. Rusty Tucker: For sure I will add the "tickle" monitoring. Jim Smith: <> Rusty Tucker: I think a Web Interface would be real cool too Daniel O'Leary: With the new "#set" command I can control non-digital equipment. Bob Nunn: <> Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, can we take the value of one variable and assign it to another? Rusty Tucker: not yet, I'm looking into it though Daniel O'Leary: It may be a way to export variable contents. Daniel O'Leary: Ran into a need for that one. (grin) Rusty Tucker: what you can do is "redefine" and existing var with new data Daniel O'Leary: Am always trying to push the limits. Rusty Tucker: but you can't take data from one var and put it in another. Ken Sutherland: Rusty send a prize to Dan, his mailconfig is over 180k in size Daniel O'Leary: The problem then is that you must be able to read one, then assign it to another through a kludgy #if construct... grin. Daniel O'Leary: You are funny, ken, I have an award from Chris for my 43 MB mail packet. Rusty Tucker: I know, I've seen that beast Daniel O'Leary: hehe... Daniel O'Leary: Sorry guys, I have a thing for messaging. Daniel O'Leary: 43 MB was all FIDO too!!! Rusty Tucker: KS - I want to do a promo on HDS mail.... Rusty Tucker: Can we get a demo version that doesn't require a key for use? Rusty Tucker: Something I could bundle in the TF Demo??? Ken Sutherland: maybe, the FINAL release may be posted later this weekend Daniel O'Leary: Ken, any chance of an apple-event interface for HDS Email, and OAT? Ken Sutherland: ae is supported Daniel O'Leary: I will update the OAT help files too... Ken Sutherland: we just haven't told you the info Rusty Tucker: I'd like that to go out as my next news bit. Jim Smith: RT: Would it be possible to have MS scheduler to start a application and send a selected document to that application? Daniel O'Leary: Send me details!!!! Ken Sutherland: RT would you also include OAT? Daniel O'Leary: I will develop sample application ASAP too. Rusty Tucker: Just the email for now. Its a very hot subject and should get much better play! Daniel O'Leary: Ken, was thinking about doing a sysop help thing for OAT too. Daniel O'Leary: it would assist sysops in how to do various things. Daniel O'Leary: Would need a more extensive chat buffer though. Ken Sutherland: its funny, you say there is interest in HDS but with all the mail i have sent to the various places the reception has been crap Ken Sutherland: HDS Daniel O'Leary: Ken, you can be chat with... Daniel O'Leary: Fix that. Daniel O'Leary: cannot be.. Rusty Tucker: I know.. It doesn't make sense, and I'd like to take a shot at drumming up some interest Daniel O'Leary: Would like to see better integration of OAT and TF, starting with use of Mail server schedules. Rusty Tucker: Now that it is about ready, if I can get some sort of time limited demo, we can get a lot of folks to look at it when they get the TF demo Daniel O'Leary: Also, am getting source for current RADIUS. Bob Nunn: Perhaps people are having trouble understanding what it means. The demo would let them see. Daniel O'Leary: Would like to see OAT bundled too. Daniel O'Leary: It does a lot for users and sysops. Ken Sutherland: we are planning to release a bundle soon Ken Sutherland: also automan may appear in the next few weeks Daniel O'Leary: Would like a TF/User MGR - RADIUS plugin. Ken Sutherland: we have plans Ken Sutherland: also for VIG Daniel O'Leary: This would SOLVE VIG. Daniel O'Leary: VIG now uses RADIUS. Ken Sutherland: RT, a request, could there be a log that logs all chat whether via I'm or on the chat room Rusty Tucker: you can via tf user. u mean on the server side? Ken Sutherland: i have some suspect users i want to keep a eye on Daniel O'Leary: I am referring to User Manager. Daniel O'Leary: UM to Radius. Rusty Tucker: yeah, I've always shied away from that because of privacy problems Ken Sutherland: on the server Rusty Tucker: So Ken, can we do something with HDS Mail? Ken Sutherland: DO, we were asked by VIG to supply plugin for them for v 4.5 Daniel O'Leary: Plugin to link what to it? Ken Sutherland: RT, will get back to you Ken Sutherland: VIG to use UM as radius Ken Sutherland: via automan Daniel O'Leary: When I contacted them here, they said they were not interested...but I called them again to let them know that it could mean some extra sales if the integration were there. Ken Sutherland: RT, i could set HDS to automail a demo request after installation Rusty Tucker: IMO that's too much hassle, and if they don't have a live connect it won't work Bob Nunn: I think being able to show them how it works up front would be very worthwhile. I still think that many don't understand what that means. Rusty Tucker: Me2 Bob Nunn: Every MIS type has been blown away. Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, I think that a complete demo version of the TF-HDS products should be shown. Rusty Tucker: How about calling it HDS Web Mail? Ken Sutherland: we could auto authorize for 1 time only, then they NEED to request a key within 14 days Rusty Tucker: leaving the web out as it is now makes it seem like just another email product Rusty Tucker: How about just a preset time limit, like the TF Server? Daniel O'Leary: My ISP would like a port of the plugin to Linux... Ken Sutherland: also remember, we authorize all keys, if the tf serial number looks suspect we bounce it, remember we have already had people try it !!!! Rusty Tucker: Or a "per launch" time limit like Web Star? Ken Sutherland: we protect tf if we can Daniel O'Leary: While on the subject of plugin... Has there been any work on the FSE plugin? Rusty Tucker: You need to be careful of being overly paranoid, especially if it makes it difficult for potential customers to try out. Rusty Tucker: Too much hassle, and they drop it before they try it. Ken Sutherland: yup but i cant tell you, if i did id have to make you work for Microsoft Daniel O'Leary: ARGH!!!! Rusty Tucker: I'm going to be switching TF to a 2 hr run time in the demo soon. mikael fredriksson: KS why not a best before date AND a time limit online? Daniel O'Leary: Rusty... I have given some thought to access control from the web. Rusty Tucker: then the "demo" and "release" will be identical Rusty Tucker: Chuck Shotton has a good method in W* for activating the demo, Rusty Tucker: just answer a simple math problem and it will run for 2 hrs Ken Sutherland: yup. i have all his keys Ken Sutherland: and his SSL Daniel O'Leary: Can we add some stuff to UM so that hit totals and BYTES transfered be incorporated when a user has logged in via the web? Daniel O'Leary: That way we can stop web-based leaching. Rusty Tucker: There are guys on the web that are "collectors", you don't lose a sale if your s/w is in their collection. Ken Sutherland: it has always been our aim to protect our products from piracy, if we release a full demo, what's to stop someone cracking it as they did with TF Rusty Tucker: Get market share, then worry about piracy Ken Sutherland: of a shrinking market! Daniel O'Leary: That's what M$ does now. Daniel O'Leary: They convert pirates to customers. Ken Sutherland: give me 2 tick, am going to call Jon Daniel O'Leary: Tick tick. Daniel O'Leary: Rusty... thoughts on new fields for UM? Ken Sutherland: he's surfing, need to get him an extra line Daniel O'Leary: Suzie would require mods also. Rusty Tucker: Also, put a note on the web page that "Web Mail" is running in demo mode Ken Sutherland: RT, the demo, what size is the file Rusty Tucker: TF is about; 6 mb Ken Sutherland: so floppy is out, CD Rusty Tucker: Its only a web download Rusty Tucker: I had to cut back on the docs to keep it small enough to download. Rusty Tucker: much bigger and folks wont' grab it Daniel O'Leary: I would not know about that RT... they grab 50 MB Flight-Sim demos. Rusty Tucker: this ain't a game though :( mikael fredriksson: or 120MB system upgrades from Apple like me ;) Ken Sutherland: but you can get very frustrated all the same Rusty Tucker: I gotta go, but will keep the log running Daniel O'Leary: Ok. RT... Rusty Tucker: I'll be back in about 10 or 15 m Daniel O'Leary: Keep the system up!!! Daniel O'Leary: I think there is value in the other HDS products. Ken Sutherland: iv never had problems keeping it up, sorry to hear of your complaint, they can get cream so iv been told Daniel O'Leary: At this time, they are geared specifically to enhance TF. Any problem linking the demos of those? Daniel O'Leary: other than size of aggregate? Ken Sutherland: if we go to the trouble of updating the reg for HDS we might as well do the same for OAT Ken Sutherland: together they would only add 500k to the download Daniel O'Leary: Then why not add them to the aggregate. Ken Sutherland: anyone tried hfs+ yet, my mail drive had 1.6gb and after shrunk to 1gb, nice or what mikael fredriksson: KS any plans for making a special price on your products if you have one registered? Ken Sutherland: not yet Daniel O'Leary: Ken, it works well on my conferences partition. Ken Sutherland: to be honest the amount of registered sysops, is very small Bob Nunn: I am still waiting to get HFS+. I hear it won't be available to us peons until first of Feb. Daniel O'Leary: I had a problem with the damned finder NOT copying everything though. mikael fredriksson: I'm waiting for the GM but use it on my work Mac saved 500 MB on a 2 GB Ken Sutherland: Dan give him what we 30k file Daniel O'Leary: ??? Daniel O'Leary: Ok. Daniel O'Leary: Bob. Connect here. Rusty Tucker: I'm back Daniel O'Leary: I think the problem is in OS 8.0.... The finder did not copy all files from the partition, in either attempt. Rusty Tucker: BTW - I'm going with w Netopia 630 Daniel O'Leary: No error msg was displayed until I tried copying a second time. Rusty Tucker: So I have both a Livingston IRX and CISCO 2501 For Sale Daniel O'Leary: then I got 2 not enough memory to copy msgs. Rusty Tucker: + a prelude T1 DSU/CSU and a 56k DSU/CSU Bob Nunn: Smaller batches Dan... Daniel O'Leary: Rusty. I want the Livingston. Daniel O'Leary: Tried that Bob. Daniel O'Leary: It did not make a difference. Ken Sutherland: i want it, Dan, bugger off Ken Sutherland: hehe Daniel O'Leary: Bite it Ken.. .I asked first. Daniel O'Leary: Grin. Ken Sutherland: but I'm bigger than you Daniel O'Leary: I am closer than you. Bob Nunn: Have some problems as well. We move lots of big files at work. Speed Doubler seems to help. Rusty Tucker: 1st gut w/ a cc that will approve $900 wins :) Ken Sutherland: want some HDS keycodes 8-) Daniel O'Leary: I really do need something to support a LAN larger than 4 CPU's Daniel O'Leary: The Livingston is a true router. Rusty Tucker: either will handle that easily Daniel O'Leary: Found out that the 3Com product is not. Rusty Tucker: the CISCO is a top flight router as well, both have 2 serial + ENET BNC Ken Sutherland: true Rusty Tucker: U can look up the CISCO in the DataComm warehouse catalog Daniel O'Leary: I could go with an Ascend 75... Ken Sutherland: can you modem it from remote? Daniel O'Leary: Yes. Ken Sutherland: VERY GOOD BOX Rusty Tucker: Livingston is now part of Lucent Daniel O'Leary: I like Livinsgtons. Daniel O'Leary: They are easy to set up. Daniel O'Leary: and they work well. Ken Sutherland: voice number please Rusty Tucker: yes the Livinston. is more user friendly Rusty Tucker: 1 714 508 9366 Daniel O'Leary: There are no limits in that box to the number of concurrent sessions. Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, any thought on my Web access control request? Daniel O'Leary: And what model IRX??? Rusty Tucker: I didn't see a model number. Just Internetwork router, 2 serial 1 ENET Rusty Tucker: I don't see them in the catalog either Rusty Tucker: Neither the CISCO or Livinston have a limit on IP addresses Rusty Tucker: the Netopia does 630 (29), but apparently a firmware upgrade will change that Rusty Tucker: That's what Netopia means by "user limits" Rusty Tucker: so says their sales support Daniel O'Leary: How are you supporting ISDN... through the serial port or separately? Ken Sutherland: use a terminal modem Daniel O'Leary: how much for the CISCO? Rusty Tucker: same price Russ Reynaga: <> Rusty Tucker: I'm using the Netopia since its integrated. Ken Sutherland: same offer 8-) Daniel O'Leary: how many serial port on the CISCO? 2? Rusty Tucker: Hey stranger! Russ Reynaga: howdy... thought I missed it! Rusty Tucker: 2 ports 1 ENET Rusty Tucker: the ports are 1 async, 1 sync Daniel O'Leary: I may get you that CC now. Russ Reynaga: looks like the topic is routers? Daniel O'Leary: Am checking with my ISP... they are in the market. Rusty Tucker: FS Daniel O'Leary: Yes. Rusty Tucker: I have a CISCO 2501 and Livingston IRX FS, $900 each Russ Reynaga: Ohh, that is a good price! Rusty Tucker: + a Beauty BeBox for just 800 :) Ken Sutherland: if you wanted to sell a tf/HDS package Russ Reynaga: but 'da chicken uses a Compatible Systems 2800i which has two T1-E1 ports and two 128K ports... the BeBox is also a great price, but I already have one of dem... Rusty Tucker: I'm switching from the T1, which is way underutilized, to 128k ISDN Ken Sutherland: wow, what did you say -) Rusty Tucker: I'll be using a Netopia ISDN router ( #630 ), which it seems will have a firmware upgrade to remove the 29 user limitation. Russ Reynaga: Well Rusty, here on the good side of the country in CT the 56K frame price is $300 including the local loop, and I can get graphics delivery space from aitcom.net in NC for $9.95 per month so I have an effective T1+ Rusty Tucker: Bob Wright already has dibs on "boomer" -- the Linux 66mhz 486 Rusty Tucker: That's a good deal Russ. Daniel O'Leary: He can have it... I got real Unix here. (grinning and ducking) Rusty Tucker: :) Russ Reynaga: Yeah, I thought so too... hey the rest of you guys should jump all over that BeBox... it is nothing short of fabulous! Daniel O'Leary: Will have to check back on the router. Rusty Tucker: got it Ken Sutherland: Rusty, is the demo tf server got a fixed tf serial number, talking to Jon as we type Rusty Tucker: I'm still trying to figure out the PM 7100, seems that I may want to load a G3 upgrade card in it... Daniel O'Leary: I would like that too Russ, but I only have so much in the way of $$$. I need to get Jim Smith his Lollipop dues too. Bob Nunn: I just bought an IBM 9 gig for $400 (factory refurb) but with full 5 yr. while we were chatting. Rusty Tucker: If I can add a fast SCSI controller, that might beat my 132 604e Russ Reynaga: Hey, Henry Norr sez its great for the 7100 mikael fredriksson: BN where? Ken Sutherland: Rusty? Rusty Tucker: yo Bob Nunn: Mac Mall, they had two left. mikael fredriksson: ok Ken Sutherland: serial number , is it fixed Rusty Tucker: TF? The user enters it. Ken Sutherland: nononon, the demo., does it have a tf serial number Ken Sutherland: we need 1 Rusty Tucker: oh, yes, it has a hardwired serial number Rusty Tucker: the demo serial number is TF00-24451 Ken Sutherland: are you waiting for it,....... OK you got it, we would be willing to include a time limited demo Rusty Tucker: cool, I'll put together a release, and send it to you for a look see, and hopefully will spam it next week. Rusty Tucker: well, spam it in a nice way :) Rusty Tucker: BTW - is there a Mac spamming program? Daniel O'Leary: It's not spam, it is "Useful Software /Info" Ken Sutherland: hahaha Russ Reynaga: Oh s**t, sorry guys, this always seems to happen when it gets interesting... damn. Gotta talk on the phone to a client. I can't understand why they want to talk to me, they should just send m lots-o-money, right... see ya next week guys, I'm outta here. Daniel O'Leary: even better than "incredible money making opportunity" Russ Reynaga: <> Rusty Tucker: I'm gonna go grab my Netopia now Ken Sutherland: would you be willing to include info in the demo with regards to OAT Rusty Tucker: u bet, Daniel O'Leary: Yipiee!!! Rusty Tucker: put together some pages/text I can load in Rusty Tucker: For the pages, keep it self-contained in a folder called /HDS/, Ken Sutherland: ok Daniel O'Leary: Ken. can you test the Highlander link to my system by posting to all TFDEV areas. Rusty Tucker: It will go out on the CD too, make a CD version that contains some s/w if you want Ken Sutherland: that way we could in the future include future product releases as well Rusty Tucker: gotta go, will follow up by email Ken Rusty Tucker: see ya next week mikael fredriksson: hi mikael fredriksson: do you need system 8.1? guest: HI, that looks good guest: Plz modify the settings in the client to be AT&F1&D0 too guest: thanks, guest: guest: Rusty Sysop: Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------ January 16, 1998 -- �Copyright 1998, Spider Island Software