----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, March 24, 1998 11 AM PST.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,

Sysops: Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Daryl Hansen, Daniel O'Leary,
Donald McHose, Jim Leary, Bob Nunn

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rusty Tucker hola!
Michael Davidson I'm beta testing my Chat extension, so if I crash and burn,
don't be surprised :)
Michael Davidson Hello Rusty!
mikael fredriksson hi!
Michael Davidson Rusty, I'm beta testing my Chat extension, so beware....I
didn't get it finished like I'd hoped :(
Rusty Tucker :)
Rusty Tucker Dan O is trying to get Java to work with Chat server...
Michael Davidson I did get the greetings and outgoing filter done though, I
think :)
Rusty Tucker not sure if he's found a way to get AppleEvent working w/ Java
yet
Michael Davidson from preliminary testing, I don't think I can use the 1000
commonly misspelled words list because of speed though, maybe on a PPC or G3
it would work
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Daryl!
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Daryl!
Michael Davidson Hello Rusty!
Michael Davidson Hello Rusty!
Daryl Hansen Aloha!
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Jim!
Michael Davidson its not bad for short messages, but checking each word on
long messages for matching 1000 different words might be too slow
Michael Davidson Hello Rusty!
Rusty Tucker Making 1000 comparisons direct in apple script would be pretty
heavy
Michael Davidson for each word...too !
Michael Davidson already see a problem, be right back
Daryl Hansen My in title says we are all in here twice.
Daryl Hansen RT, how is PowerKey Pro support coming along?
Rusty Tucker Daryl, how's he mail plug-in doing these days?
Rusty Tucker I haven't; added the PowerKey tickler yet
Daryl Hansen It is crashing less :) Only once a day now :|
Rusty Tucker that's with 1.0b1?
Daryl Hansen I am using a PowerKey Pro 200 now. It is pretty good, doesn't
restart the machine if it gets stuck in Macsbug.
Daryl Hansen Yes 1.01b1
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Daniel!
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Daniel!
Daryl Hansen I particularly like the outgoing domain specification feature
;)
Daniel O'Leary I made it.
Michael Davidson Hello Daniel!
Michael Davidson Glad you could join us Daniel!
Rusty Tucker I'll have to look at that, per-user outgoing domains?
Daniel O'Leary Looks like Rusty has enough nodes active for me not to get
shut out like last time (grin)
Daryl Hansen RT, JP and I have been working a little to try and find ways
that we can embed his ".mail" files inside SPML page using the "exec file"
command.
Daniel O'Leary Rusty, did you see the quoting problem in TF/User?
Daryl Hansen It has a few caveats though.
Rusty Tucker Yes, it happens when there is an "@" but not a <>
Daniel O'Leary You will not always get those from the net.
Rusty Tucker its fixed for the next version
Daryl Hansen :)
Daniel O'Leary Cool... love those updates.
Daniel O'Leary I still have problems with the UM and scripting... there
should be a button to turn it off for maintenance.
Rusty Tucker just move the applet
Rusty Tucker out of the user manager folder, that will turn it off
Daryl Hansen RT, have you given any thought on using the Rhapsody Yellow
API's? I hear that Sonata will be fully YELLOW?! This would make an easier
transition to Rhapsody.
Rusty Tucker I've heard a couple different things...
Daryl Hansen I even read on Rumors that Sonata will have the Rhapsody
Kernel.
Rusty Tucker still waiting to see the real deal and PLAN.
Daryl Hansen I don't understand how that would work.
Daryl Hansen Hehe Good idea.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Donald!
Michael Davidson Greetings Donald!
Rusty Tucker One rumor has it that Rhapsody will have full support for MacOS
API
Rusty Tucker ie I wouldn't need to port at all!
Daryl Hansen I read that one too.
Rusty Tucker Porting would suck...
Daryl Hansen Hmm. That would be GREAT :)
Daryl Hansen Yes, less work is better :)
Rusty Tucker I don't have enough time to take away from new features to do a
port.
Daryl Hansen I agree. Apple needs to make it EASY for developers to get
their apps into Rhapsody NATIVELY.
Michael Davidson Am I crazy or are new TeleFinder features coming in at a
record breaking rate?
Daniel O'Leary Rusty, are the docs on the Server interfaces up to date? I am
not sure I have everything I need to work on some projects for TF/Server,
User manager and Mail Server.
Rusty Tucker I think they are current
Daniel O'Leary I got sidetracked on sun's site when I was looking at the
JAVA-AE link... I promise to track that down and get it to you.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Matt!
Michael Davidson WhatÍs happening Matt!
Daniel O'Leary I am not sure if a product exists or if one is planned, I
just know that I read something on it somewhere.
Matt Snider Not much, just thought I'd stop by to see what is new
Donald McHose Hi Ya'll, sorry for the sub. break,but thought you might like
to see this. Server crashed hard last night.Then at restart- NOTHING ;-(.
Took it to the shop and the tech just pulled the battery then put it in.Tech
said that Zapping pram is not the answer a lot of the times.Cheep quick fix
and now all is fine.
Daryl Hansen RT, JP says that most of MauiMail's crashes are a know bug,
that he has almost squashed. He said an update should be ready shortly.
Daniel O'Leary Don, I have seen that also.
Rusty Tucker cool,!
Michael Davidson Probably using TechTool to zap the pram might have done it
too Donald McHose, it zaps pram fully
Donald McHose I'll give it a shot next time.Thanx
mikael fredriksson Was it a old or new mac?
Donald McHose One scary minute after another ;-)
Donald McHose Two years WGS 8150
Rusty Tucker I've got a PowerMac 6100 that won't boot the 1st time, only the
2nd try. it has a dead battery
Daryl Hansen Yes, two years is about right for that machine.
Daniel O'Leary Just noticed that my 8100/80 thinks its a PPC 7100.... Wonder
when THAT crept in.
mikael fredriksson check that your battery has the correct voltage maybe
time to change
Rusty Tucker + the battery seems impossible to replace
Michael Davidson Tip, when using techtool, first set startup to internal
boot disk, if it has a system on it
Daryl Hansen Older machine's batteries last 5-8 years, but newer PPC's last
only 2-3 in my experience.
Rusty Tucker I have 2 6100's, and each has a different battery holder. One
is removable, the other won't budge.
Matt Snider There were 4 different revs of the 6100 series motherboards
mikael fredriksson DH that's true about life battery time (I work as a Apple
tech)
Daryl Hansen Me too!
Rusty Tucker There will be a new set of stuff today that supports the "Don't
Save Password" option.
mikael fredriksson :)
Rusty Tucker Here's how it works...
Daryl Hansen Cool :)
Michael Davidson I was just thinking about the password thing this morning!
Rusty Tucker In user manager, there's a new user setting "May Store
Password"
Rusty Tucker When this is set, TeleFinder Server tells TeleFinder Client,
"Its ok to save your password"
Rusty Tucker but-- only the new client is listening.
Daniel O'Leary So a client purge is in order.
Rusty Tucker So old client version will keep saving the password even if
your server tells them they shouldn't
mikael fredriksson cant the server send a IM that its time to upgrade?
Daniel O'Leary Can you issue a version of this for the WinHoze side too?
Rusty Tucker yes, there's and update for mac and windows clients
Rusty Tucker both will be out this afternoon.
Daniel O'Leary Great.
Daryl Hansen RT, the "try to replace" button is mild torture. Can you put in
a "replace all" button or just get rid of it or something?
Rusty Tucker Is everybody up to speed on the new web server 'PRTL" result
code?
Daniel O'Leary Rusty, is there any way to provide the IM service to telnet
logins?
Michael Davidson Let me get this straight, no longer will it be true that if
one user on a machines sets the pref to "save my password" does it effect
all users on that machine
Daniel O'Leary I have seen the PRTL here...
Rusty Tucker The "save my password" pref is a per-settings file pref as far
as I know.
Michael Davidson I don't think so rusty, i believe it is global per machine
(sys TeleFinder pref)
Daryl Hansen Can you just make it replace all files automatically, like FTP?

Rusty Tucker The UM side "May Store PW" pref tells TeleFinder User to clear
the password after login
Rusty Tucker Sure Daryl, the button is a ' trial' .
Daryl Hansen When People upload 50 files at a time, it takes forever to sit
and click.
Daryl Hansen Okay.
Rusty Tucker It's a pretty big change in TF's behavior
Rusty Tucker so some allowance needs to be made for prior TeleFinder users
that may be relying upon it working that way.
Daniel O'Leary Was that directed at my Telnet question rusty?
Donald McHose RT: on the PRTL codes- not! but that is no surprise either.
I'll get back if there is a Q.I am sure its in the docs ;-)
Rusty Tucker that was for DH
Daryl Hansen Git it, For the better :)
Rusty Tucker OK - the PRTL result code is like OK ( the command was accepted
)
Michael Davidson Add a button that says "replace ALL files"
Rusty Tucker But PRTL means that the "transfer was broken"
Rusty Tucker ie the client did not get the full download
Rusty Tucker OK now means "the client got the full download"
Daniel O'Leary So there is a pointer to the balance of file to be xferred
somewhere?
Michael Davidson default to Replace, but have another non-default button
that says "Replace ALL files"
Daniel O'Leary or does the client need to get all of the file?
Rusty Tucker no DO, HTTP doesn't support that
Rusty Tucker HTTP is "all or nothing"
Rusty Tucker noted MD
Daniel O'Leary Yes, we keep having to live with the command/response with no
state change storage crap in HHTYYP.
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Daniel O'Leary Have an idea though.
Rusty Tucker if you're charging clients to download data, its important to
know if they got everything
Daniel O'Leary server could set a cookie on the client side about where it
was in the xfer.
Daniel O'Leary could divide and conquer the blown transfer by resending the
data from the last known location.
Jim Leary Trouble over here! When going into my web page from another
computer, my previews are broken and each time I visit a link the computer
freezes. And in addition, the web server log says error for whatever I try
to get into. Any idea what's wrong?
Michael Davidson but the cookie could be faulty, since the dload messed up
too
Jim Leary and does NOT record any username
Daniel O'Leary Jim did you just install a new TF/Server.
Jim Leary yes
Jim Leary the beta update
Daniel O'Leary You would have to back step from the last GOOD transmission
MD.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Daryl!
Michael Davidson Glad to see you Daryl!
Daniel O'Leary Are the servers properly linked JL?
Michael Davidson then, the cookie would need to be constantly updated after
each good transmission
Daniel O'Leary I think after every so many good transfers...
Daryl Hansen I got kicked by my ISP.
Rusty Tucker The client already knows how much data he has... there is no
need for cookies
Daniel O'Leary you would have a chunky handshake, but a handshake none the
less.
Daryl Hansen Aloha Michael!
Michael Davidson Notice, my greetings change each time! :)
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Bob!
Michael Davidson Salutations Bob!
Daniel O'Leary RT, the client would need to send the amount back to the
server if resume were made possible.
Daryl Hansen Cool
Rusty Tucker yep - you make my bot seem boring :(
Daniel O'Leary Just call him Roto-BOT.
Bob Nunn Perhaps a group of variable greetings that were picked randomly
would be in order.
Daniel O'Leary Rusty, how does the new user name logging work?
Michael Davidson I've been doing them in order, now I'm setting it to
random....hope more people enter! :)
Michael Davidson I'll be right back.
Bob Nunn Then you could send me the code so I could use it as well. :-)
Daniel O'Leary Just add "user name" to the log parms?
Daniel O'Leary or "USER_NAME"
Daniel O'Leary ?
Rusty Tucker There's a new option in the Web Server Settings:Login panel.
Rusty Tucker its a check box call "Log User Name"
Daniel O'Leary Ah, a hidden interface.
Rusty Tucker when you check the box, TeleFinder writes the user name with
the hit info to the Web Server log file
Donald McHose Rusty programs with the Mac user in mind !
Bob Nunn Will it screw up my Analog reporting?
Rusty Tucker Very, Very complex! Don't try to use it!
Daniel O'Leary Can you add an SPML extension to add these to the other logs?

Rusty Tucker SPML has known about user name for a long time already
Rusty Tucker Analog seems to ignore it, that's why I put it at the end of
the line.
Rusty Tucker But I have not done a lot of testing yet.
Daniel O'Leary Is it "USER", "USERNAME" or "USER_NAME"?
Michael Davidson Bob Nunn, I intended to have "Chatterbox" ready for all
users today, but i tried to do too much. Eventually, I'll have it for
everybody!
Daniel O'Leary I placed one of these in my dir and Topic templates, but I
don't remember seeing it work.
Rusty Tucker It's "USER_NAME"
Bob Nunn Good deal. Perhaps you may get back a few improvements as well. I
haven't had much time lately but would like to mess with it a bit.
Donald McHose Back on the Road...see ya Fri.
Rusty Tucker If the Hit is not in a "realm", then you get a blank entry.
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Rusty Tucker It can only log user name when it is supplied by the browser (
ie within a realm )
Daniel O'Leary Rusty, I just tried to start another TF/User session, and it
corrupted my TF/User prefs.
Michael Davidson It has a GUI interface for easily setting "Friends, Twits,
Greetings, Outgoing Filter, Incoming Filter, etc.
Matt Snider hey guys, just got a client call......got to run......everybody
have a good day
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Rusty Tucker how can you tell they're corrupted DO?
Daniel O'Leary Just got a dialog box that says: There is a problem with the
file "TeleFinder User Prefs" Place the file in the trash and...."
Michael Davidson TESTING: Ignore: Rusty Tucker, Bob Nunn, ";", ":",
TeleFinder TeleFinder's interface, TF Mail Server, the, Donald McHose,
Michael Davidson!
Rusty Tucker oic -- that's cuz it's busy, and can't be opened
Michael Davidson Never seen that one DO
Rusty Tucker Actually, since TeleFinder can't "write" to it, it thinks there
is a problem with the file.
Michael Davidson So only one TeleFinder user per machine?
Daniel O'Leary What prog is reporting this TF or the Finder?
Rusty Tucker only one TeleFinder User can use the system prefs file at a
time.
Rusty Tucker TeleFinder reports it when it can't write to the prefs file.
Daniel O'Leary Ah, CHANGE THAT!
Daniel O'Leary it is very misleading and could cause user to mistakenly dump
their prefs.
Rusty Tucker its very handy when the prefs file is actually messed up
Michael Davidson Rusty Tucker, I'm not sure about all the ramifications of
your password fix; if you are right about each "save my password" is per
settings file, I think all will be ok, but I think that I am correct about
global save password per machine, and so there may be problems not foreseen.

Rusty Tucker and users wonder why their prefs don't save
Daniel O'Leary Can that error msg be different than when it is just busy
because another TF Session is running?
Michael Davidson When you first said password change, I thought you were
fixing the global (sys pref file) to local ( settings file)
Rusty Tucker MD - there are sysop that don't want users to save their
passwords, mainly since they are running TeleFinder from a shared computer.
Rusty Tucker The feature I implemented lets the sysop disable the user's
ability to save his password on a user by user basis.
Michael Davidson I understand why you have the new option on the server side

Michael Davidson it is good
Rusty Tucker The "Save My Password" setting is overridden by the sysops
choice.
Michael Davidson what if the sysop says its okay for 3 people that use 1
machine to save password; but one of the three doesn't want it saved
Rusty Tucker In fact, its now renamed to "Save My Password (when permitted
by the server)"
Michael Davidson if the other two set it to save password, his will keep
getting saved unless he calls the sysop and has him set it to don't save
Daniel O'Leary And each user has a "can save pwd" param attached to their
login on UM?
Rusty Tucker The user preference is a settings file pref.
Rusty Tucker not a global preference, I'll double check that and fix it if
that is not true.
Michael Davidson I don't think so Rusty; but maybe I'm wrong
Michael Davidson We discussed it a long time ago in one of these chats
Rusty Tucker Any last Q's before we wrap today?
Michael Davidson "I'll double check that and fix it if that is not true."
That's what I was hoping!
Daryl Hansen It's ALL good :)
Rusty Tucker U bet!
Jim Leary Rusty, my previews are gone and the web server log is not listing
any additional info. I renamed my old TF Server and saved it. Can I just put
it back and return to the same as it was or has the beta now adding things
that I have to manually remove?
Daniel O'Leary Rusty, can I get source to Suzie?
Rusty Tucker Yes Jim, just move the old server back, and relaunch it.
Daniel O'Leary I would like to make the changes to the URL encoding for the
lists.
Jim Leary there is obviously a conflict with the preview plug-ins. Will that
remain if I put my old TF Server back into place?
Rusty Tucker I don't know JL, I don't have the preview plug-in here.
Daniel O'Leary Wait Jim!
Michael Davidson I saw an app that made previews automatically for web
Rusty Tucker what version of TeleFinder were you using before?
Daniel O'Leary I am testing your site.
Daniel O'Leary Turn it back on Jim!
Rusty Tucker You probably need to sort that out with JP. Time to run. See
you all on Friday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	March 24, 1998 -- ©Copyright 1998, Spider Island Software