SpiderChris: hello Allon, Bob Allon: hi Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Hello Chris and Allon Allon: This a is a great idea Chris SpiderChris: Allon, yea it should be fun. I really like CU-SeeMe... SpiderChris: Bob, you might want to switch to your resolution to 'standard'... otherwise it takes four times longer to get your screen updates..... Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Can you see us okay Chris?? Allon: This is my first time even launching the software SpiderChris: Hehe... SpiderChris: Bob, i sure can! Allon: Can I Resize Bob's screen? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Great this is my first at this. Been playing with the Quick Cam COOL SpiderChris: Rusty and Jose should be joining us soon SpiderChris: You can use the zoom to make it smaller (or larger) Allon: Which is the zoom button? SpiderChris: the zoom box, in the upper right hand corner.... Allon: I don't have one on my screen Allon: cancel that SpiderJose: Hello Bob and Allon! Allon: I just realized something... Allon: Hello, Heloo Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Hello Jose Nice to see you! rusty: hello Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Hello Rusty! Nice to see you face to face SpiderJose: Nice to see you too, Bob! SpiderChris: well, hello..... and goodbye to bill ;-) rusty: Bob, you might get better results with a smaller pic size, it looks like we're losing a lot of data going to you. Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Give me a clue?? How do I adjust? SpiderChris: Bob, click on the settings icon in your local window, (one on the right), choose "compression", and then "standard resolution" SpiderChris: Hi Bill rusty: hey Bill! rusty: what kinna hat is zat? SpiderJose: Hello Bill! Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Thanks I found the setting. Hope that helps Bill Gram-Reefer: it's my portland beerfest cap rusty: That seems better Bob! SpiderChris: beer! rusty: mmm, sounds good Bill Gram-Reefer: it will be about 2 minutes before this crashes my modem rusty: Who's there with you Bob? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: This is Shannon. She does all the graphics on Wang's Online. Several others are lurking in the backgroumd SpiderChris: Jose is learning to spell ;-) Bill Gram-Reefer: hasn't crashed yet! rusty: We might as well jump right into SPML scripting Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Sounds like a plan. rusty: Bill has written some nice forms pages, and we've got a few samples online now. Bill Gram-Reefer: and group the commands rusty: The 5.1.4 b1 distribution has an 8-Ball sample and the Guestbook sample Bill Gram-Reefer: but there are so many commands my eyes just glaze when i look at the list I wouldn't know what to do with them Bill Gram-Reefer: guestbook will be next for me so I can get past the original cgi, i guess i could do the Paulsen wisdom module this way, too? rusty: We're looking into supporting a "Mailto" command so that you can send data by email, rather than just loggind the data to a file. rusty: U- bet Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: The only SPML I have on my personal site is a list of my top ten users updated via Susie and a current date Bill Gram-Reefer: yippee. i was able to send netforms back within the 30 period, a mailto will complete the annihilation SpiderChris: jose's into that 'feedback noise i guess'.... Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: I just got a burst of sound. SpiderChris: combination of our intercoms and audio caused some feedback there... rusty: Allon is back Allon: I am Allon: Sorry about that Allon: Hope I didn't miss much rusty: The new version of SPML is set up to handle forms input rusty: http://www/demo/demoreq.html is a good example rusty: of how you can handle complex forms without CGIs rusty: This page lets people register to download the demo version of TeleFinder server from our site. SpiderChris: <--- working on a new spml savvy personal web site now :-) Allon: Are there any plans to integrate some of the TF functionality to web users? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: I like those examples it makes it easy for us borrowers Allon: such as conference rusty: The sever logs the information supplied, then provides them with a license agreement that they can accept or reject before gettiing to the download page Allon: email, and a nicer FTP interface? Bill Gram-Reefer: just back from 1st crash rusty: I'm following Apple's NetFinder and EG development closely, and we're working with them to insure that they are compatible with TF. rusty: In the case of NetFinder ( gives a Finder download interface to web pages ), we've licensed them some code to include, that will make NetFinder work well with TeleFinder, and other web servers. Allon: Interesting Bill Gram-Reefer: hmmm Allon: How far off do you for see that?\ rusty: There is a NetFinder sampel running on Apple's CyberTech site now. Allon: How far off do you for see the integration with TF Bill Gram-Reefer: explain more on what netfinder is? rusty: That's up to Apple, NetFinder and EG are 'skunkworks' type projects without a solid commitment. rusty: check out http://cybertech.apple.com/ Allon: Is there currently an imagemap cgi avail? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: I liked what I saw and would look forward to setting up FTP if I could have the netfinder interface. Allon: for TF that is. rusty: Yes MapServe Allon: Ok great rusty: Just about any MacHTTP cgi works with TeleFinder -- NetFinder is one of the only ones I know that is Web* specific. rusty: You don't need FTP with NetFinder, only a WebServer! Allon: I thought so Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Is there a beta version of Netfinder that I could get my hands on?? rusty: NetFinder is a problem because it does not use Internet Config for MIME types. rusty: yes, as cybertech rusty: http://cybertech.apple.com/ Allon: But it still won't work w/ TF; right? rusty: right, an earlier version used to but the curretn version does not, i rusty: I think that the next version will work again. Allon: WIll that allow me to bring the conferences to the WEB? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: I will watch for it. Brian Akey has joined me - he is MIS and is our Sysop for Wang's Online. rusty: We'd have to do a CGI for that, but we don't have one planned at the moment. rusty: Maybe Ken would like to add it to Max TF! Allon: OK Allon: I think he has a plate full now rusty: Hi Brian! Bill Gram-Reefer: i'm back from second crash Bill Gram-Reefer: why did everyone go hidden? SpiderJose: Hello Brian! Allon: Bill, what's causing the crashes? rusty: I see everyone rusty: use "show all" from participants. Allon: Your going to have to reopen everyone SpiderChris: bill, maybe you connected without "receive video" turned on... Allon: every time you log back in Bill Gram-Reefer: either PPP or the usr modem cause it does it with either TF or cu seeme SpiderChris: bill, choose "Start Receiving" from the conference menu Bill Gram-Reefer: ok i did Bill Gram-Reefer: there you are rusty: I thought I could show you the PC's screeen, but it did not work Bill Gram-Reefer: so now I am connected with the hayes optima. If no crashes then its a flow contyrol prob with the usr Allon: Bill, what PPP driver are you using? rusty: We may have B4 of TFUSR Win today, with Previews in the "Get Info" window Bill Gram-Reefer: let's not go there, I've been thru every single one Allon: Is the window scrolling fixed? rusty: yes Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: That excites me. I have a lot of Windows Users. Are Wang's Online is almost 100% windows users. Allon: :) rusty: Then we'll get on with an Address Book and Find File... Bill Gram-Reefer: chris, i really like the forward feature you put in, I use it for a mil list for my extended family SpiderChris: bill, cool :-) rusty: ( but its not a list server :) SpiderChris: btw, there will be Mail Server 5.1b4 online by the end of the day... ~5:00PM rusty: or is it? SpiderJose: Hello Drew! Allon: I think "forward" is a smart feature Drew's Office (NY): Hello from AECNET! Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: What about telefinder interface in a web client??? SpiderChris: Hello Drew! rusty: Hi Drew! Drew's Office (NY): Hello Jose and Chris. Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Hello Drew rusty: I guess it's not the USR causing Bill's PPP woes Drew's Office (NY): Hi Bob Drew's Office (NY): So what did we miss on SPML? Or was that last week's chat? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Could it be Operator Headgap causing Bills troubles?? rusty: Brian, Apple is doing a little of that in a program called NetFinder ( for file downloads ) rusty: Not too much, there weren't many questions. Bill Gram-Reefer: he's back Allon: Is there good reference material for building SPML sites? Drew's Office (NY): I have one. Can you send data from a form to a mail message using SPML? rusty: We've drifted off into various topics, including CGI's a new WIN TF User and a new Mail Server Beta. Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: Could the SPML vars. allow you to get into telefinder features like seeing how much mail I have waiting? rusty: You can't right now, but we are looking into adding that. Drew's Office (NY): That would be terrific. Most of our users are asking about imagemaps, counters and mail forms, so handing mail via SPML would be great. Allon: I think that will be a terrific integration Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: Can I add stuff to SPML or is that a server thing? Allon: including a conference cgi rusty: We'd like to be able to send the forms data etc, by email rather than logging. Drew's Office (NY): We'd rather get it via e-mail too. Better than dealing with log files. rusty: For now you can tell them that they can log the data ( like the Guestbook SPML ) and then download it. rusty: You can add items direclty to SPML, the external interface is CGI. rusty: Then you cal call CGIs from SPML, or via URL Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: Cool! SpiderChris: be right back.... going to see if i can get keith johnson online.... Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: What are you guys using to right CGI scripts? rusty: We're also working with ResNova on the MOSAPI plug-in interface. It's a higher performance way to do CGI. Allon: Rusty, what was the pointer to your example SPML page? rusty: We code CGIs in C++ using a CGI framework we put together for PowerPlant. rusty: http://www/demo/demoreq.html rusty: That's a real extensive form in SPML Drew's Office (NY): I hear that ResNova is using SPML in Boulevard. Drew's Office (NY): The only ResNova product that works! (g) rusty: Theere is also gbook/guestbook.html Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: What other systems support SPML, Unix, NT, etc? rusty: Yes, their SPML is SSI only, just like WebCenter. rusty: primarily #includes and #echo rusty: Apache, MS IIS, Purveyor, NetScape Drew's Office (NY): I know NCSA and Apache support SSI under UNIX. rusty: Those systems support SSI, also NCSA Drew's Office (NY): Not sure about other httpd rusty: Our SSI command are documented at /docs/telefinderssi.html Drew's Office (NY): We run NCSA under Solaris/Sparc. Drew's Office (NY): TF is almost as fast as a Sparc10! rusty: Cool! Very cool Allon: I've been very impressed by speed Drew's Office (NY): I'm also very impressed with the new MailServer. Drew's Office (NY): Its blowing the doors off of AIMS. Just add a resolver and you've got the only viable Mac Sendmail substitute on the market! rusty: When Chris got a mention for GeekTalk on Macintouch we bounced up to 20,000 hits per day, and it was not even noticable. Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: WHat is AIMS? Also what mail control features are in the mail server? rusty: It's settled back to less than 10k now Drew's Office (NY): The only thing we've run up against now is disk speed on file transfers. Time for some RAID at AECNET. Drew's Office (NY): AIMS is Apple Internet Mail Server. Allon: How many threads do you use? SpiderJose: AIMS=Apple Internet Mail Server SpiderChris: hello, i'm back rusty: 20 -- it maxed out rusty: I think the Cahcing is what saved us. Allon: With one connection, I maxed out out 4 threads. I don't quite understand what happened there Drew's Office (NY): Have you guys ever considered adding remote authentication to TF (i.e. having UserManager search a passwd file on another host)? rusty: Netscape uses 4 threads by default SpiderChris: http://www.spiderisland.com/~chris/geektalk/index.spml Allon: Got it rusty: no, that's never come up rusty: I've been interested in RADIUS tho. you use TACAS+ dont you? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: At Wang's it would be great to be able to connect telefinder with our NT server so when Drew's Office (NY): We're TACACS+ guys, yes. Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: we make accounts the passwords and accounts are made in telefinder. Drew's Office (NY): Think of this. An ISP uses a central TACACS or RADIUS server to authenticate users at dialup AND at TF login. rusty: How do you add privilege levels to TACACS? Drew's Office (NY): Then the TF client pulls mail from the same server via POP3 at login time, and includes a "browser launch" feature (not a built-in browser). Drew's Office (NY): You'd own the world! Drew's Office (NY): Good question. We've asked the same question here! rusty: RADIUS seems to be somewhat extensible, at least MacRADIUS does. Drew's Office (NY): Its the CISCO vs The World thing when doing RADIUS vs TACACS. rusty: I'm not sure if it's better for us to utilize another server, or add RADIUS/TACACS to UM. rusty: You just need logon name and password authentication? Drew's Office (NY): That would do it. I'd like to be able to make ONE account on ONE server that handles a user's login, mail and web space. TF is almost there. Drew's Office (NY): Adding TACACS or RADIUS to UM would be very cool. Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Brian: So when are you guys adding Nt server emulation? rusty: :0 rusty: oh noooo Bill Gram-Reefer: the look on your face rusty was great :o rusty: Smile Jose is taking your picture! Drew's Office (NY): Cool. The Telefinder Rouges Gallery? Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: If I could just get him to add my Operator Headgap Ad to your site list rusty: They'll be added to the chat web page SpiderJose: Adding it today =) rusty: We should have Drew's site on there too.... SpiderJose: I've been holding off. I'm trying to get that page working with the Tango.acgi. rusty: our time for today is running out.. Drew's Office (NY): Knock yourself out, although its pretty boring if you are not an architect or in the building industry (-: rusty: Any last Q's before we call it a day? Drew's Office (NY): And www.aecnet.com runs on WebSTAR. Our user pages run on TF Bill Gram-Reefer: yeah yeah Bill Gram-Reefer: no no Bob Nunn-O.Headgap: Its been fun. I missed my normal lunch and will have to eat twice as much to make up for it. Have you picked a subject for next week yet?? Drew's Office (NY): No Q's here. Bill Gram-Reefer: bye all rusty: see http://www/chat/tfchat.html Allon: Is the new MS incorporating threading? SpiderJose: bye! rusty: for info on next week's chat sched SpiderChris: bye all, take care! rusty: we'll do Friday again, and perhaps an afternoon slot earlier in the week rusty: Ye,s MS threads Allon: Bye everyone, looking forward to the new MS! rusty: It has always used threading rusty: out! Allon: There was an issue of threading... Allon: If you look at the message order SpiderChris: Allon, Mail Server requires Apple Thread Manager. This is what it allows it to have multiple SMTP servers, clients, and TF mail processing all at once. Allon: Got that Allon: I'll talk to you later, bye SpiderChris: As a future direction, we do intend to break up the main processor threads into multiple threads, so if you are importing large message packets, you'll still be able to deliver local mail. SpiderChris: bye SpiderJose: Bye guys!