Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, October 17, 1997 11 AM PDT.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,
Sysops: Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Donald McHose, Jim Leary, Ken Sutherland, Bob Nunn
Michael Davidson: Hi Mikael, isn't it time for a chat?
mikael fredriksson: yes 11 am
mikael fredriksson: (8PM here)
Michael Davidson: wonder where the others are!
Michael Davidson: 1 pm here; where are you at, Europe?
mikael fredriksson: Yes, Gothenburg Sweden
Michael Davidson: I was guessing Germany.
mikael fredriksson: Same time zone;-)
Michael Davidson: I wonder where Rusty is
Michael Davidson: probably dozing off on the Server's keyboard
mikael fredriksson: Or having a support call
Michael Davidson: that's probably it
Michael Davidson: I'm going off to read the support conferences for a minute. BRB
mikael fredriksson: Hi Donald, we are waiting for Rusty...
Michael Davidson: Hey Donald, just read your hair-pulling post! :(
Donald McHose: Oh,o.k was there a chat on last Fri,? I missed it.
Michael Davidson: Yes
Rusty Tucker: Hi, BRB!
Michael Davidson: I'm not sure it has been logged though
Michael Davidson: Hi Rusty!
Donald McHose: There he is..
Jim Leary: Hello all
Michael Davidson: There he goes!
Michael Davidson: Hi Jim, we're getting a late start...you haven't missed a thing yet
Bob Nunn: Hey Guys
Jim Leary: Most of you guys using 5.5???
Michael Davidson: Hi Bob
Donald McHose: I am
Michael Davidson: I am using 5.5
Jim Leary: Is it true that our clients won't have to use TF User once I install 5.5?
Michael Davidson: I think everybody here is using 5.5 or better
mikael fredriksson: Hi Rusty! I have spent that afternoon with the programmer that made CE Softwares new QM server
Rusty Tucker: I'm back
Michael Davidson: I don't think they had to before 5.5 Jim....they could use pop mail clients
Rusty Tucker: Oh? Tell me more Mikael!
Michael Davidson: Yes, Mikael, tell us all more!
mikael fredriksson: Does TF support X-Real-To: ?
Rusty Tucker: ( BTW - I should have an Win Client update this pm )
Rusty Tucker: Any "X" header is non-standard
Rusty Tucker: Like TF's "X-Local-To"
Rusty Tucker: Sounds like their "Real" to is similar in meaning.
Jim Leary: On our BBS, the client can see a thumbnail photo with a caption, put in with Iron Mike software (plug-in for Photoshop) Is this info still available when they look without TF User?
mikael fredriksson: Its made by two young men from Stockholm, Sweden
Rusty Tucker: The "X" headers are usually implementation specific, meaningless to other programs,
Rusty Tucker: So TeleFinder will ignore the "X-Real-To" header.
Michael Davidson: I think you (or I) am confused Jim. Essentially no Jim. ....
Rusty Tucker: Yes, Jim, its the same preview that Photoshop uses
Michael Davidson: What do you want non TF/user using clients to be able to do Jim; access the bbs by modem or by Internet?
Rusty Tucker: Some programs show it in the "Open" dialog now.
mikael fredriksson: They was talking about that your ISP had to support it for Domain POP3 accounts to work
Jim Leary: OK, so the thumbnail and caption will be there, correct. I don't put captions in the Get Info
Jim Leary: Mike....by Internet
Michael Davidson: What, I have domain Pop3 working and not using x-real-to mikael
Rusty Tucker: That could be, depending on the implementation of the Domain POP3. It is OK for them to put the "real" address in the To: header though.
Jim Leary: but it's essential that they can see these captions that we put in using our Photoshop plug-in (Iron Mike)
Michael Davidson: I'm not sure that clients can see previews or the file info by way of Internet like they do by way of BBS; Rusty will need to answer that one
Rusty Tucker: Do you mean see them online, or otherwise?
Michael Davidson: The x-real-to would be ignored by my method
Rusty Tucker: The Iron Mike guys should be able to tell you what s/w supports the caption.
Jim Leary: Essentially, 5.5 will be a web page that I can customize as I choose, which is great, but when I client clicks on one of our files, it now shows them a thumbnail and caption. I need that to be the same. s/w?
Rusty Tucker: OK - The thumbnails are not viewable via the web at this time.
Rusty Tucker: The caption is.
Rusty Tucker: I'm not sure if Windows Browsers can handle the PICT format.
Michael Davidson: mikael; here's my guess. QM has implemented a way for them to handle domain wide pop accounts; TF can handle such accounts with MS and not using the x-real-to.
Jim Leary: The whole idea of our BBS is to show the client photos before they download
Jim Leary: so they can choose
Jim Leary: Without that capability, the program is useless to us
Michael Davidson: you could have them go to a page that shows the GIF of the photo before they choose to dload Jim
Rusty Tucker: Then your clients need to use the TeleFinder client to view photos right now, or suck the Preview out and convert it to a GIF file.
Jim Leary: So basically, our clients will see the customization of our site, but will still need TF User to see the thumbnail. Is that right?
Michael Davidson: That is, for each photo, have a page (or partial page) and a description
Jim Leary: We have 4000 photos
Jim Leary: and counting
mikael fredriksson: Jim, I made thumbnails in Photoshop and had them linked to the "real" picture for download
Michael Davidson: suck the thumbnails out and display them; but linking them would be a drag ! :( that's a lot of photos
Rusty Tucker: He needs a way to automate that
Jim Leary: How do I "suck out the thumbnails for display"?
Michael Davidson: Yes, write an applescript using QxP or something
mikael fredriksson: I think that you can make a small script or program to do that
Rusty Tucker: Jon Paisley has got some code to convert an Icon to a gif, maybe he can adapt it to convert the Thumbnails to a GIF
Michael Davidson: my comments are very slow to appear today....so beware
Jim Leary: Where's he?
Rusty Tucker: UK
Rusty Tucker: Usually he's in these chats though
Rusty Tucker: He did the mail plug-in
Michael Davidson: you should be able to pull the thumbnail out (a resource I think ) and keep it linked to a list of the filename
Ken Sutherland: hi all, sorry I'm late
Jim Leary: I don't understand something...Is my company the only one that uses TF to display photos????
Rusty Tucker: Hey Ken.
Bob Nunn: Gotta run guys catch you next Tuesday. Will try to have the chat logs up this weekend.
Rusty Tucker: see ya
Michael Davidson: I think there are applescripts that pull thumbnails Jim; maybe Donald's commands
Michael Davidson: HI KEN!!!
Jim Leary: You're losing me here. Applescripts that pull thumbnails?
Michael Davidson: Thanks Bob for the chat log tasks
Rusty Tucker: I'll experiment w/ some PICTs today and see what comes up.
Ken Sutherland: sounds painful
Jim Leary: Where do I get this? How do I do it?
Michael Davidson: It is an osax that does it
Rusty Tucker: for Mac we could easily pull the thumbnail and show it as a PICT.
Rusty Tucker: Just not sure if Win will display it.
Michael Davidson: sorry for the delays in my comments....I way slooooooow today
Jim Leary: Everytime you upgrade this program to a better level, something i need is missing. It's frustrating
Michael Davidson: I think we would want to go with Gif Rusty, no?
Michael Davidson: BRB, looking for a thumbnail sucker
Jim Leary: and the gifs would also display the captions?
Rusty Tucker: Yes, but that would be very processor intensive to convert PICTs to GIF on the fly
Ken Sutherland: Rusty, is it possible to create a common feature environment for both pc and mac to allow all features, 1st class can do it , why cant we?
mikael fredriksson: You can make batch processing of folders in Photoshop 4 that can make small versions of your picture in what ever format you need
Jim Leary: Also, remember we're talking about the web. Whatever solution is obtained cannot make the page too slow loading
Rusty Tucker: Historically We've put a lot more time and resources into the Mac Product. That's why it is more advanced than the Win version.
mikael fredriksson: The problem is that you need something to link them together
Michael Davidson: not on the fly....have a program that sucks the thumbnails and suck the captions and convert the thumbnails to gifs and keep track of the filename associations. Then make pages for the gifs with captions that are linked to the files.
Rusty Tucker: Liking them together should be pretty easy in the SPML
Donald McHose: Doesn't Home Page do that conversion on the fly?
Jim Leary: So you are saying to batch process the pics to thumbnail gifs. Then each could be clicked for download? Is that right?
Rusty Tucker: have a folder full of PICTs and a GIF folder in that
Rusty Tucker: in "dir.spml" add an <IMG SRC> link to point to the GIF along with the other display items
Michael Davidson: yes Jim batch
Michael Davidson: also i found a thumbnail creator
Jim Leary: Seems like these solutions so far will take about 3 years to take care of 4000 photos
Michael Davidson: its an osax form Marty's commands (not Donald's commands)
Jim Leary: Isn't there any way to have TF do this?
Rusty Tucker: It may be possible, like I said, I'll do some testing with it.
Michael Davidson: no, Jim, it would work quickly if written correctly
mikael fredriksson: I made thumbnails of our 9 year party picture (182 pictures) for our web page at the company I work ant that was a 15 min job after I setup Photoshop 4 scripts on how to shrink the picture size and in what format to save them you only hat to chose input folder and your output folder
Jim Leary: OK Rusty. I just ordered today, so I guess I'll get it next week
Michael Davidson: Of course, it would be best if Rusty can come up with a solution
Rusty Tucker: Yep, should be there Tues.
Rusty Tucker: Hopefully the Win browsers can display PICT images. If not, you'll need to use the converter solutions.
Jim Leary: Well, looking forward to it. If our clients have TF User, they can use it to see us and our new customized page on the Internet, while being able to see the captions and thumbnails with TF User. Am I correct with all this?
mikael fredriksson: If you want to take look on the thumbnail pictures they are at http://www.trifolium.se/triffid_fest_97.html
Rusty Tucker: well MS Explorer won't open PICTs, or even BMP files!
Jim Leary: OK, any testing you can do Rusty is appreciated. I guess I'll have to wait for the program before I can start trying to solve the problem. Thanks
Jim Leary: I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you Rusty.
Jim Leary: Gotta get back to work here. Clients are ordering pics. Thanks again
Rusty Tucker: see ya
Donald McHose: Rusty is he dealing in pics or photos..I'm thinking jpeg.
Michael Davidson: Rusty, couldn't you switch from using PICT thumbnails to using GIF thumbnails, or maybe allow both.
Rusty Tucker: Yeah, the actual file is a JPEG, but the Preview images are stored as resources in PICT format.
Donald McHose: oops
Rusty Tucker: The GIF thumbnail does not exist
Michael Davidson: He's just worried about the thumbnails Donald
Rusty Tucker: The Thumbnails only exist as PICT resources.
Donald McHose: He could use Home Page to convert could he not?
Rusty Tucker: The new Win client will be online this Afternoon. It supports the "read/unread" mail flagging, updated icons, and keyboard navigation of the files.
Donald McHose: Great nice to see things moving as well as they are
Rusty Tucker: Its starting to look a little better
Rusty Tucker: Any last Q's before we wrap up?
Donald McHose: Rusty is it a hassle to run mail off of a separate server?
Rusty Tucker: BTW - I'll be out of the office next Tues Aft - Thurs PM ( at the Newspaper Conference on Technology )
Michael Davidson: Rusty, I know you are focused on the Internet/web stuff; have you ruled out the business/email server improvements...is that market not something you want to compete in?
Rusty Tucker: I won' t be at the Tues chat, but please carry on!
Rusty Tucker: It's easy to run mail server on a different machine, thats how I do it
Michael Davidson: sorry, that question was delayed so long, it might be too late.
Rusty Tucker: just have shared email files and user manager
Donald McHose: Thanks
Rusty Tucker: In what way Michael?
Rusty Tucker: I'm actually getting more interested in email from the client side. I see lots of room for improvement there.
Ken Sutherland: IF anyone reading this char file is using other mac based mail systems as well as telefinder please email me at the following ken@highlander.net.uk, this is in connection will the HDS mail web plug in and support for non tf based systems
Michael Davidson: focus more on the interoffice and Internet email capabilities of TF, like QM does
Michael Davidson: I think TF is a great way for business's to do communications but you don't advertise it in that way.
Rusty Tucker: :) - hasn't QM just recently "caught up" to TF's I-email capabilities ??
Michael Davidson: Now you would have to fix up some aspects of the mailing to be more sophisticated, like, mail quoting and forwarding, but that is easy enough
Michael Davidson: But you can pull ahead because of all the extra's you can offer
mikael fredriksson: QM only handles 4000 POP3 mail accounts..
Ken Sutherland: only 4000
Michael Davidson: And QM is way more expensive and....
mikael fredriksson: And they don't have the Web support
Michael Davidson: QM doesn't allow conferences and files
Ken Sutherland: looks better
Jim Leary: OK, took care of urgent orders. Any other ideas for my problem with the thumbnails?
Michael Davidson: and web serving and on and on
Donald McHose: looks can be deceiving $$$
Michael Davidson: And conferences could be wonderful for schools and businesses
Jim Leary: BTW, I stumbled on this chat. When is there a regular chat?
Ken Sutherland: maybe on the low end but looks sell, its as simple as that
Ken Sutherland: corps are not really interested
Donald McHose: How true..
Ken Sutherland: in cost
Rusty Tucker: Time for me to go. Next Chat is Tues at 11, then Fri at 11.
Rusty Tucker: See you all later
Ken Sutherland: night rusty, manuals please
Donald McHose: See ya
Michael Davidson: Bye rusty...:(
Jim Leary: Any pro web designers in here?
Donald McHose: Well I got to get to work myself , have a good one all.I can make a bad designer look good Jim ;-)
Michael Davidson: Jim, the Chats are weekly at Tues at 11, Tues at 6 pm, then Fri at 11 Pacific Standard Time
Michael Davidson: Bob left Jim
Ken Sutherland: just to let you all know, if you haven't read this before but Highlander is shortly going to release beta tests for 2 new projects, a full NNTP server and a FTP server, both controlled via tf user manager
Donald McHose: bye
Ken Sutherland: anyone with specific request or just interested, email info@highlander.net.uk
Michael Davidson: Sounds like Highlander is really improving TF...when can we expect to see them Ken?
Ken Sutherland: NNTP, possibly less than 2 weeks, FTP less than 4 weeks, just depends on the feedback we get on the final beta for Online Assistant
mikael fredriksson: any new mail plugin on the way ;-)
Michael Davidson: Cool. is info@highlander.net.uk automated replies?
Ken Sutherland: probably in the next few days, Jon is in the middle of adding some new features
Ken Sutherland: nope, just me 8)
Ken Sutherland: may introduce a list server if u want
mikael fredriksson: hey, then you head to head with the QM server... ;-)
Michael Davidson: hmmmm, don't you guys have a list server for highlander already
Ken Sutherland: yup, Jon set it up, i couldn't get it to work, crap manual
Michael Davidson: give us the address and commands to get on the highlander mail list
Ken Sutherland: will post in tf sysop
Michael Davidson: good, that's even better
Ken Sutherland: potential last OAT next Monday
Michael Davidson: cool
Ken Sutherland: all we need is to get rusty to setup ppp
Michael Davidson: I gotta go, see ya all on Tues. Keep up the good work Ken. TF needs ya!
Michael Davidson: Yeah, that would be toooooo good Ken
Ken Sutherland: night all
mikael fredriksson: .-) night!
October 25, 1997
-- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software