In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker

Sysops: Mikael Fredriksson, Jim Leary, Bob Nunn, Daniel O'Leary, Donald McHose, Dennis O'Leary, Ken Sutherland

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Bob!
Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Donald!
Rusty Tucker: I usually like copy and paste better than DnD for text.
Jim Leary: Hello...I've installed 5.7 in the new G3 and brought over TF Server files needed, but I dread reconfiguring paths for both TF and Cumulus...I'm not even sure if Cumulus can be dragged over or if everything must be recataloged
Jim Leary: I look forward to the day this server is setup completely
Jim Leary: completely
Rusty Tucker: :) why not make the paths the same on each Mac?
Bob Nunn: I have moved systems before. If you name the drives and partitions the same it usually works.
Rusty Tucker: Rename the new HD to match the old, etc.
Rusty Tucker: That will work with TF, don't know about Cu.
Jim Leary: But I'm moving from one computer with 5 partitions to one drive where folders will replace partitions...will naming folders the same as the partitions work too?
mikael fredriksson: JL don't think that it will work with cumulus
Rusty Tucker: no, that won't
Rusty Tucker: the "full paths" will be incorrect
Jim Leary: like I said...I can't wait till this is over
Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Daniel!
Daniel O'Leary: hey guys!
Donald McHose: bout time DanO the traveler
Rusty Tucker: BTW - there is a problem in 5.7.1 and the "Modem Config" dialog :(
Rusty Tucker: -- crash and burn...
Daniel O'Leary: Am getting major lag here
Rusty Tucker: but it does fix the "Web Register" bug!
Rusty Tucker: c-ya Daniel O'Leary
mikael fredriksson: RT a 5.7.2 soon?
Rusty Tucker: ya, probs
Rusty Tucker: still tracking it to be sure its ok
Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Daniel!
Rusty Tucker: he's back!
Rusty Tucker: how were the Highlands?
Donald McHose: Have you seen a memory leak with OS 8.5 and TF 5.7?
Donald McHose: anybody?
Rusty Tucker: c-ya Daniel O'Leary
Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Daniel!
Rusty Tucker: not here
Daniel O'Leary: hahah
Rusty Tucker: I have heard of an OS8.5 leak
Daniel O'Leary: Damn
Rusty Tucker: not one in TeleFinder though
Donald McHose: ok thanx
Daniel O'Leary: I have seen a memory problem.
Donald McHose: Is it another OT problem?
Daniel O'Leary: System also gets slower and slower and the finder allocation gets bigger and bigger
mikael fredriksson: There is a memory leak in AppleScript if they stay open
Daniel O'Leary: My brother from New Orleans is here in Fort Worth, with most of his family.
Daniel O'Leary: Scotland was great RT.
Daniel O'Leary: even though I only stayed a short while..
Donald McHose: Turkey time ! How was ken and the rest ? DO
Rusty Tucker: did you bring back a new HDS? :)
Daniel O'Leary: I met Ken and his family... Very hospitable folks DH.
Donald McHose: Hmmm ;-)
Daniel O'Leary: Yeah, RT.
Daniel O'Leary: We drank a beer to the new TFDev net.... grin.
Daniel O'Leary: will have to put up a QT movie of that.
Daniel O'Leary: I brought my camera.
Rusty Tucker: shoulda been a scotch :)
Daniel O'Leary: hahahahahaha
Rusty Tucker: TFDev net?
Rusty Tucker: that a new conferencing net?
Daniel O'Leary: Developers net for add ins and such.
Daniel O'Leary: yeah.
Daniel O'Leary: starting with my Java stuff, I suppose...
Rusty Tucker: cool, post the info about getting a feed...
Daniel O'Leary: Okay, will do.
Daniel O'Leary: Here's my brother, the invisible one....
Donald McHose: Is the Zone up now DO?

Jim Leary: MF I'm not worried about Cumulus paths because I can just make new folder aliases and then drop the partition names in directories.config...question is do I have to recatalog my 15,000 photos?
Daniel O'Leary: Hi Rusty. yes this is Dennis
Rusty Tucker: is that Dennis?
Rusty Tucker: Hi ya!
Daniel O'Leary: Back from the sea. Getting ready to start the bbs up again.
Rusty Tucker: a.k.a. "tf00-24213" :)
Rusty Tucker: old TIMER!
Jim Leary: DO I found that preference to close the WebServer so I think I'm ok there now
Daniel O'Leary: Yes. It has been awhile. I was afraid you might sell SI. I'm glad you are still here.
mikael fredriksson: JL I think there is a tool in the Cumulus package to fix that
Jim Leary: like an update script?
Daniel O'Leary: I'm here to repo my 4 gig HD from Dan. The only way to get it back was to come here ..grin
Jim Leary: I think you are right...I'm waiting to hear from the Canto boys to make sure I get this correct the first time. This process will take long enough as it is without doing things twice
Donald McHose: RT does that and he'll find out that SC and California is just a few hours away ;-)~
mikael fredriksson: JL I think so should I ask at work for you?
Jim Leary: would appreciate that ...thanks
mikael fredriksson: JL I ask tomorrow check your mail here
Daniel O'Leary: Dan again... I've been waiting for Dennis to get here.
Daniel O'Leary: He's had his system down for so long, I've prolly got 70 MB of TFNet email packets waiting form him.
Daniel O'Leary: he brought his CPU, an 8100/100... my CPU is nervous.
Daniel O'Leary: It feels a lobotomy in the offing.
Daniel O'Leary: I have moved most of my stuff onto other drives, but will need to clean his up after the mess I made shuffling stuff around.
Daniel O'Leary: The BBS is working just fine.
Daniel O'Leary: Does anyone know if AOHell mail can be accessed via a POP3 client?
Donald McHose: nope..no can do
Daniel O'Leary: Only by their cheezy client, eh?
Donald McHose: The NetScape/AOL ichat works good tho..only their client.
mikael fredriksson: MacInTouch :
America Online today announced that it will buy Netscape in a $4.21 billion deal. In a related 3-year arrangement, Sun is to distribute
Netscape server software, while AOL plans to use Java for "next-generation Internet devices."

Daniel O'Leary: Dennis was itching to check his mail... told him he should have a BBS to forward his mail to, so he can check it with TF/User or Netscape.
Daniel O'Leary: have a feeling he's going to get me to set his BBS on the CPU he brought with him... Some vacation I took today, eh?
Rusty Tucker: make him COOK on Thurs.
Rusty Tucker: or at LEAST pour the beers
Daniel O'Leary: Yeah, that's the ticket... the wife would LOVE that one.
Donald McHose: Kinda wondering why NetScape ( mozilla ) couldn't be a client. New resources could be held in a folder. The server would check to see if a template was up to date and if not upload new gifs and URLs(hidden).
Donald McHose: Sorry to be off topic here.
Rusty Tucker: Hmm... I still haven't figured out what AOL gains by owning a Free browser....
Rusty Tucker: Unless they're just protecting them selves from MS being the only browser vendor.
Bob Nunn: All those people who have the default NetScape page coming up.
Daniel O'Leary: Exactly and they get SERVER stuff.
Rusty Tucker: That's not worth $4 B!!!
Bob Nunn: They want the portal. Seems most folks aren't smart enough to change it from the default so they can load it with advertising.
Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Ken!
Jim Leary: hopefully once Netscape is in place for AOL, more things will work...I, being non-AOL member cannot attach a photo to an email to an AOL member
mikael fredriksson: from AOL's site :Netscape's site alone draws 20 million visitors each month. The other three most popular sites are operated by AOL, Microsoft Corp. and Yahoo!. Steve Case, AOL's chairman
and chief executive officer, said AOL will operate Netscape's site separate from its own.

Ken Sutherland: morning
Rusty Tucker: They coulda pulled an IBM and use Apache for the server...
Rusty Tucker: .. or BUY SPIDER ISLAND for just $ 1B :)
Jim Leary: it never gets there
Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Dennis!
Dennis O'Leary: hey hey hey
Donald McHose: GIVE ME MORE TIME KEN ;-)
Daniel O'Leary: Hehe, I got Dennis on...
Daniel O'Leary: Hey Ken!
Daniel O'Leary: I told Ken to give you more time Don.
Ken Sutherland: hado
Rusty Tucker: Well, maybe that's it - its cheaper to buy them for $20 each , rather than try to win them through advertising and free disks.
Dennis O'Leary: Hey Rusty, have you ever seen two TFUser sessions running on one box?
Dennis O'Leary: I'm here
Jim Leary: RT ever hear of eMedia weekly
Rusty Tucker: Yeah :), don't fight over they keyboard though
Donald McHose: Yeah well as I finished this last Grant request I know how it feels to be a slut too.
Rusty Tucker: yep -- a.k.a. MacWEEK
Jim Leary: they mentioned the release of TF 5.7 last issue
Daniel O'Leary: And here too.
Ken Sutherland: 5.7, what that?
Rusty Tucker: 5.7 is.... uh.. Never Mind!
Rusty Tucker: 20 M visitors per month?
Ken Sutherland: got a wee idea, RT, why not select the best 3rd party plugin, web, gizmo companies and give them TFS for evaluation compatibility, you might get more pr
Rusty Tucker: Now how many of those 20M load it by mistake and never look?
Rusty Tucker: its gotta be a weak number, compared to Yahoo visitors for example
Rusty Tucker: gizmo?
Ken Sutherland: web analyzer, sts
Ken Sutherland: at
Ken Sutherland: stats
Ken Sutherland: counter plugins
Dennis O'Leary: gizmo!
Ken Sutherland: etc....
Ken Sutherland: you always see, 'compatible with WebTen, WebStar', never TFS
Ken Sutherland: BRB
Donald McHose: It does get tiring to read about what all the other Mac servers do. TF never mentioned.
Jim Leary: gotta market the product if you want people to know its there
Ken Sutherland: exactly
Jim Leary: Aside from brief mention in a place or two I have never read about TF anywhere
Ken Sutherland: why not make a list of the top 10 3rd party apps
Rusty Tucker: :) thanks!
Donald McHose: How about this Rusty,would ya let me make up some hats with the TF symbol up front & and a www url of a sys. in the back ?
Ken Sutherland: why not some real cool black T-shirts
Rusty Tucker: Here's how that works -- Sysops buy 3P stuff, and the 3P guys take notice of the server you're running.
Ken Sutherland: what bout the shareware stuff, (grin)
Rusty Tucker: Web* is 98% of the market.... so ya gotta make noise when you buy stuff.
Ken Sutherland: whey not start a campaign with the sysops to make others aware
Ken Sutherland: yes and its slow
Donald McHose: What's slow ?
Dennis O'Leary: WebStar is slow.
Dennis O'Leary: Has anyone tested the new AppleShare IP server performance?
Rusty Tucker: Dm - u mean like Baseball style hats?
Jim Leary: money is tough but there are less expensive and some free marketing techniques...lets take search engines for example....just did a search on yahoo for web servers....no TF to be found anywhere
Ken Sutherland: IP6, IP6.1, a great way to crash your Mac (big grin)
Dennis O'Leary: That is good to know... a stability factor.
Donald McHose: yeah...I could do that. I would need interested parties URLs for the back and your permission for the TF symbol. up front. Hat black baseball type.
Daniel O'Leary: Man, am I getting lag here.
Ken Sutherland: TFS in UK is £699 for 2 node license, WebStar is £299 and includes SSL and a shit load of extras
Rusty Tucker: Sure, that sounds pretty cool. I tried getting some made up years ago, but they turned out very sucky.
Daniel O'Leary: How does WebStar get SSL so cheaply?
Jim Leary: try thinking a bit bigger marketing than baseball hats....the average guy on the street won't get the hat....gotta gear toward target audience
Ken Sutherland: ill take 5
Rusty Tucker: KS - TF has MANY more extras than W* -- Email, BBS for some pretty big starters
Donald McHose: O.K. I'll send ya a test. Don't worry about the $Southern hospitality thing O.K 5 tops per bbs please. I AM Married with three.
Ken Sutherland: I know, RT I'm not having a go,all I'm interested in is your app,honest
Daniel O'Leary: I want to raise awareness of TF as a viable server application.
Rusty Tucker: That's OK -- the #1 web server is FREE. Its not a good path to be on
Rusty Tucker: The main thing that people buy TF for is BBS, pure and simple
Jim Leary: search on HotBot for "web servers for Mac" first 40 returns...no TeleFinder
Rusty Tucker: The rest is "bonus" as far as most are concerned.
Jim Leary: that's why marketing will spread the word
Daniel O'Leary: Right, so you have to make money by "thinking different"
Jim Leary: oh please DO
Daniel O'Leary: Haha JL, I could not resist.
Daniel O'Leary: What are the top draws for system requirements right now in the server market?
Donald McHose: That's just beautiful ;-)
Ken Sutherland: 'Think Different - get out of 2nd gear'
Daniel O'Leary: And shift to HIGH.
Daniel O'Leary: high performance, High Reliability, and High capability.
Jim Leary: I took a seasonal site I did last year that received 700 hits and turned it into 5000 this year... got a job for me RT?
Jim Leary: high exposure via marketing
Daniel O'Leary: Aggressive marketing, eh?
Rusty Tucker: $$$$
Ken Sutherland: sorry, forgot you yanks don't like shift sticks
Rusty Tucker: got some?
Ken Sutherland: you don't always have to spend to gain !!!!
Dennis O'Leary: Haha, not true you Scot!
Daniel O'Leary: I love my Standard.
Bob Nunn: RT do you think AMUG would let me send them updated files for their CD without your permission?
Daniel O'Leary: Should we all update our settings files and mass mail them to AMUG?
Rusty Tucker: I'm going to send TF User to Info-Mac real soon
Ken Sutherland: when did AMUG stop running there TF server?
Rusty Tucker: they shouldn't accept s/w via 3rd party
Rusty Tucker: but who knows :)
Jim Leary: you don't have to spend much in getting the SpiderIsland recognized a bit better in search engines. That's a way to reach your target. I type in web servers and then web servers for Mac and TF doesn't exist...thats ridiculous
Daniel O'Leary: along with a set of Feature lists for interested parties.
Bob Nunn: I bet it has been a year. I didn't think so. I would have sent them a collection except they are specific.
Rusty Tucker: I'll have to look at that Jim, all the Major Sites know about spiderisland.com
Rusty Tucker: don't know why "web server" doesn't yield a hit
Rusty Tucker: BTW -- di d you all hear that Soft Arc has dropped support for First Class!?
Daniel O'Leary: I have not advertised my site, but perhaps a blits is in order.
Bob Nunn: Sherlock changes the picture some. I find things easily sometimes and others not even with most of the associated plug ins chosen. Try Headgap in Sherlock sometime and then try your site.
Rusty Tucker: Either upgrade to FCIS ( major $ ) or pound sand seems to be the options.
Daniel O'Leary: Really? I think SA has not marketed a product in some time.
Daniel O'Leary: grin.
Donald McHose: What !! There is your ticket man. Unless there is something in the Web Objects scheme that might influence that move.
Donald McHose: I guess NT killed another great app Dan O
Daniel O'Leary: Time to put a blitz on the poor hapless FC server admins.
Rusty Tucker: "Mac web server" in Sherlock doesn't yield any web server software at all, only sites.
Daniel O'Leary: let them know they can do a better job for less $$$
Bob Nunn: Yup
Daniel O'Leary: One thing to demo strongly, Database connectivity.
Donald McHose: & save them a fortune..
Daniel O'Leary: Is there a list of FC sites that are in regional "striking distance"?
Rusty Tucker: Think I'll put together a release to send out to offer the Upgrade to TF from FC3.5
Jim Leary: Happy Thanksgiving to all
Donald McHose: Give Apple a call and let them know that out of your kind heart you can give ( for a small fee ) all those FC sites releaf.A hero you are.
Daniel O'Leary: Hey JL, Am at home if you want to call here.
Rusty Tucker: Guys, gotta run
Bob Nunn: Gotta run guys have a web store to get open. Ribbon cutting soon. Have a nice tday! Send the log please.
Rusty Tucker: will see you all next week
Daniel O'Leary: Okay....
Daniel O'Leary: See you later.