Spider Chat 1999

TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11 AM PST.
In attendance:
From Spider Island:
Sysops: Daniel O'Leary, Steve Messimer, mikael fredriksson, Jim Leary, LHCoffey

Daniel O'Leary: I'm back. I idled out.
Daniel O'Leary: Did not think type 10 errors were much of a problem in 8.5.
mikael fredriksson: me too...
Daniel O'Leary: But I was getting them.
Daniel O'Leary: I may trash some other prefs too, while I'm cleaning house.
Daniel O'Leary: Steve Messimer is coming in.
Daniel O'Leary: Hi Steve
Steve Messimer: hi
Daniel O'Leary: Did you get your addressbook problem fixed?
Daniel O'Leary: or at least figure out if it were size dependent?
Steve Messimer: No not yet. I haven't had a chance to get it into BBEdit yet
Daniel O'Leary: I'm not sure what the integer zero is at the end of each entry.
Steve Messimer: Not sure about the size issue and I haven't heard anything from RT yet
Daniel O'Leary: Maybe RT could answer that one also.
Steve Messimer: Jose told me about that years ago but I forgot I'm afraid :<(
Daniel O'Leary: I have only recently started looking into the file formats used by TeleFinder.
Steve Messimer: Do you have any tips about synching address books?
Daniel O'Leary: Synchronizing? in what context?
Daniel O'Leary: Distributing address list for import?
Steve Messimer: One user, two Macs two TF users . Wants to put the two address books together
Daniel O'Leary: I see.
Daniel O'Leary: I have a proposed work around.
Steve Messimer: ok
Daniel O'Leary: Use Excel to import and sort them, then nuke the dupes.
Daniel O'Leary: Export back out as text.
Steve Messimer: Sounds ok at first but excel quotes "" all the Email addresses
Daniel O'Leary: Use BBEdit to search and nuke those.
Steve Messimer: Yeah that's why I was going to BBEdit first
Daniel O'Leary: BBEdit does not have a sort function though, that I've found.
Steve Messimer: Hmmm.. I guess this is going to be a 2 step process then
Daniel O'Leary: I have written several useful grep patterns for it though, for working with log files.
Daniel O'Leary: I usually move the files over to my Unix box and sort them there.
Daniel O'Leary: I figured that you could use a spreadsheet program function to do it also.
Steve Messimer: I really wish that the address book was more like other address files in other mail programs. It sure would make my life easier.
Daniel O'Leary: RT already has a sort routine in Mail server.
Daniel O'Leary: I wonder if he could make it a stand-alone sorter for us.
Steve Messimer: I have users who want to export their address books to OEx or Eudora
Steve Messimer: that would be nice
Steve Messimer: He seems kind of busy lately
Daniel O'Leary: I recall that you can import them from those programs. RT recently made some changes to support dragging addresses into them.
Daniel O'Leary: I don't know about M$ mailer, I don't use any GateZware.
Steve Messimer: I'll have to try that! Is he the only one working at SI these days/
Daniel O'Leary: as far as I know he is.
Steve Messimer: Well I really appreciate all his work
Daniel O'Leary: He had hired Marcella back part time for a while, but I have not called him via telephone in quite some time.
Daniel O'Leary: So I'm not sure how he's making out. I suspect that he has some outside contract jobs going.
Steve Messimer: I hope he keeps it up. TeleFinder has really saved my bacon on a number occasions mot to mention many of my students.
Steve Messimer: I would hate to have to move to another mail server at this point.
Daniel O'Leary: I would also, as I have quite a bit invested in TeleFinder.
Daniel O'Leary: I'm now trying my hand at programming for it.
Steve Messimer: What language are you using?
Daniel O'Leary: Java.
Steve Messimer: Cool. I'm an old HyperTalk Guy and I'm staring to learn Java myself
Steve Messimer: looks complicated though.
Daniel O'Leary: I have an older version of CW Discover Programming for Mac, but downloaded the MRJ 2.1 and the 2.1 EA SDK
Steve Messimer: what's the difference
Daniel O'Leary: The CW CD had Java, C, and C++ but only produced 68K binaries.
Steve Messimer: I think I have a more recent version.
Daniel O'Leary: The new Java has support for Apple Events, Scripting, JNI, and RMI.
Daniel O'Leary: Mine is CW 2.0.
Daniel O'Leary: Hi Jim Leary.
Daniel O'Leary: Jim Leary got it for me.
Steve Messimer: I'm going to do a sabbatical in Scotland this summer at the dept. of Computing Sci a month long Java training session. should be fun!
Daniel O'Leary: Look up Ken Sutherland and ring his neck for me.
Steve Messimer: will do :<)
Daniel O'Leary: I have been to see him in Scotland.
Steve Messimer: where does he live?
Daniel O'Leary: Glasgow.
Steve Messimer: Dang that's where I'll be . My brother in law is the IT officer there in the CS dept.
Daniel O'Leary: He showed me all around Scotland.
Steve Messimer: Its a nice country the people are great ...but the food sucks :<(
Steve Messimer: the whisky makes up for it though
Daniel O'Leary: Grin.
Daniel O'Leary: They do like to party over there.
Steve Messimer: I gotta go nice talking to you . Later
Daniel O'Leary: See you Steve. Take care.
Daniel O'Leary: I think we should ask RT if he wants to adjust the chat time so he can make it.
Daniel O'Leary: I have a webcam at http://kz.eaze.net/tv.html
Daniel O'Leary: Has anyone had their hands on OSX server yet?
Daniel O'Leary: Will be buying a 400 MHz G3 server with that on it when it is offered for sale.
mikael fredriksson: no
Daniel O'Leary: To who ever is looking, yes, that is a shot of me sitting no my bed typing.
mikael fredriksson: Hi! ;)
Daniel O'Leary: grin.
Daniel O'Leary: Pretty cool, eh?
Daniel O'Leary: Running on my old slow server.
Daniel O'Leary: Can't wait for the new screamer.
mikael fredriksson: It fun
mikael fredriksson: I have setup some 350 and 400 bw G3 and they are fast and with OS X....
Daniel O'Leary: Is OSX released now?
Jim Leary: how much does the OSX Server
Jim Leary: cost
Daniel O'Leary: Was supposed to be out in Feb sometime.
mikael fredriksson: I think its released but not shipping
Jim Leary: any guesses on price
Daniel O'Leary: Hmm. Jim there were supposed to be some very competitive bundles upon introduction.
Daniel O'Leary: I will be getting one of those.
Daniel O'Leary: All you would need would be the server software. Not sure what is involved in migrating from MacOS 8.5.x and AppleShare IP to it.
Daniel O'Leary: Mikael, what is the installation like?
mikael fredriksson: Sorry I have not setup any X server (only bw Macs)
Jim Leary: OK...the Apple site doesn't have the details yet either
Jim Leary: Dan I will talk to you soon. Take care
Daniel O'Leary: Jim there is some details on it. I will have them here for you.
Jim Leary: e-mail to jim1061@banet.net and I'll check it tonight
Daniel O'Leary: Mik, that camera is getting a workout.
Daniel O'Leary: hehe
Jim Leary: gotta go...see ya
mikael fredriksson: We get it here 30-90 days after release in the US
Daniel O'Leary: I will be getting my new server in March or April.
Daniel O'Leary: The wife's Performa 6230 has died, and now she wants my 8100/80.
Daniel O'Leary: We may accelerate the G3 purchase, but I am trying to hold out as long as possible.
Daniel O'Leary: This 8100/80 has been a VERY GOOD system.
Daniel O'Leary: It has seen a lot of use and is still going strong.
mikael fredriksson: I think that you have to put on protective eye glasses when you upgrade ;)
Daniel O'Leary: Yeah, the warp factor.
Daniel O'Leary: Clock speed is 5X mine.
Daniel O'Leary: And all the I/O is faster/wider.
Daniel O'Leary: not to mention optimized for the Mac environment.
mikael fredriksson: I upgraded a customers 7100/66 to a 266 iMac and that was a lot faster running their bookkeeping software
Daniel O'Leary: I wish I could bring my BBS hard disk to the store and try it out on one of their systems prior to buying it.
Daniel O'Leary: Then I'd have a good idea on what to expect.
mikael fredriksson: Read the info on MacInTouch about different Adaptec SCSI cards
Daniel O'Leary: I hope that RT updates TF to work with OSX server.
Daniel O'Leary: As powerful as OSX server is, it lacks the pieces that TF has the best integration on.
mikael fredriksson: he will we talked about that the same day they released Carbon info
mikael fredriksson: (may 98)
Daniel O'Leary: A Finder-like front end on messaging, and file transfers, chat,.etc. .
Daniel O'Leary: I wonder what the dial-in support is.
Daniel O'Leary: Since it should have std Unix services, I should be able to support inbound PPP without VIG.
mikael fredriksson: I think that we have to ask RT
Daniel O'Leary: He's here!
Daniel O'Leary: He just logged out or got disconnected.
Daniel O'Leary: I hope that it comes with decent dev tools too.
mikael fredriksson: I think that RT will have full support when the "full" OS X is released as RT talked about making it Carbon native
Daniel O'Leary: This is deja vu to me... I wrote a BBS in Unix, and dumped it when I saw TF.
Daniel O'Leary: Then things are coming back to Unix.
mikael fredriksson: I wrote a chat BBS 1983 in BASIC for use on a Australian computer called Microbee mikael fredriksson: I think that we need the speed an reliability of UNIX...
Daniel O'Leary: Mine had one cool feature.
Daniel O'Leary: you could login to one port and then call out of another.
Daniel O'Leary: I never did understand why more systems did not try that.
Daniel O'Leary: It was really cool, and with "metro" calling areas, the system had great reaching power.
Daniel O'Leary: it worked over TCP/IP and via direct dial-up.
mikael fredriksson: I only had one 300 bps modem it was in the time when three only was 20-30 BBS in the country (Sweden)
Daniel O'Leary: The particular Unix CPU I developed it on had 2 serial ports, and token ring.
Daniel O'Leary: I had a pair of these connected via token ring, and could accept/originate calls on any of them.
Daniel O'Leary: At one point I used two of the ports to connect to an Apple II BBS and a PC BBS.
Daniel O'Leary: Then I migrated to CPU's that had 3 serial ports, token ring and Ethernet.
Daniel O'Leary: the BBS still worked just fine.
mikael fredriksson: was it connected to the Internet?
Daniel O'Leary: I wrote it before I had an Internet connection.
Daniel O'Leary: When I had VIG working, it worked through that.
Daniel O'Leary: it was totally Internet compliant though.
mikael fredriksson: cool
Daniel O'Leary: It even had X-Windows support. was very easy to do, since source to scads of stuff was out there.
Daniel O'Leary: I grabbed source to XYZmodem and had it support that, in addition to FTP.
Daniel O'Leary: and Kermit.
Daniel O'Leary: Even wrote a cheezy batch sender for ASCII text sends of multiple files.
Daniel O'Leary: That way, nobody was left out.
mikael fredriksson: why not port it to OS x?
Daniel O'Leary: We'll see when I get my hands on it.
Daniel O'Leary: I stopped work on it when I saw TF in action.
Daniel O'Leary: I considered TF to be orders of magnitude more friendly than my system.
Daniel O'Leary: My system did not support drag and drop transfers. 3.
Daniel O'Leary: I thought that was way cool.
mikael fredriksson: I downloaded my copy of TF on a 2400 bps modem on a transatlantic line in the TF 2.0 days and have NT stopped using is since (had a Red Ryder bbs then)
Daniel O'Leary: I bought TF used and upgraded it from a person who migrated to WinTel, and then back to Mac.
Daniel O'Leary: I think he is sorry that he sold it.
Daniel O'Leary: I just noticed a quirk of TF/User.
Daniel O'Leary: Show your session time.
Daniel O'Leary: then choose Locate a user, and look up Rusty Tucker.
Daniel O'Leary: His date of last login is not coherent when compared to the host time displayed.
Daniel O'Leary: Due toomy TZ, tt says that he logged into SI about an hour AFTER the current host time. Daniel O'Leary: Weird.
mikael fredriksson: yea
Daniel O'Leary: I snapped a picture of that to show him.
Daniel O'Leary: Does it say the same on your side?
mikael fredriksson: the Host time don't update it still says 11.31
mikael fredriksson: I think that's is the time when you connected this call
Daniel O'Leary: Hmm Will have to ask him about that.
Daniel O'Leary: it is confusing.
mikael fredriksson: yes host time should be current time at the server
Daniel O'Leary: Should be changed to current login Time.
Daniel O'Leary: or Current Server Time.
mikael fredriksson: yes
Daniel O'Leary: And the one above it to Prior Login (logout?) Time.
Daniel O'Leary: Depending upon what it really was.
Daniel O'Leary: Seeing it in this context is confusing.
mikael fredriksson: I think prior login as mine says 11.01
Daniel O'Leary: I will email him with a suggestion that he clarify the nomenclature.
Daniel O'Leary: and include the snapshot so he can see the confusion.
Daniel O'Leary: I think that Rod Paine found and fixed a confusing nomenclature on TF Message window.
Daniel O'Leary: He solved it by pasting in a PICT resource that labeled it current/total or something similar.
mikael fredriksson: I hope that RT fixes it in the next TFU
Daniel O'Leary: Am posting about it now.
LHCoffey: Hello
Daniel O'Leary: Hi LH.
LHCoffey: anyone home?
LHCoffey: Hi, Daniel
LHCoffey: what's up?
Daniel O'Leary: We've been discussing things like OSX and TF server, and things in TF User.
LHCoffey: way over my head
LHCoffey: I DID however just FIND at the dump and entire UNOPENED Lotus software set.
LHCoffey: and I just bought an old Mac Classic for $2.45
Daniel O'Leary: Good deal!
LHCoffey: Where I live we have a "recycling" shed, where people put stuff instead of throwing it away, and I find stuff all the time
LHCoffey: I wish you live near me, Dan. I need a good geek neighbor
LHCoffey: live=lived
Daniel O'Leary: hehe
Daniel O'Leary: Where are you hailing from?
LHCoffey: I'm in NC. I've talked to you before, if you remember
Daniel O'Leary: Right... just did not recall where you were from.
LHCoffey: I'm a full time artist. You can see my stuff at http://.www.mediadiamics.com/lhart if you want to look
LHCoffey: I want to be a computer geek, however.
LHCoffey: My site has GREAT music, called "Ultimate Evil
LHCoffey: of course, I can't spell
Daniel O'Leary: Is that based upon a game?
LHCoffey: why is Mikael so quite? The music, I don't know, a guy who liked my art lets me use it. He does video game music
LHCoffey: so it may be
Daniel O'Leary: You should let the sysops who hang out on here know that you do art. Maybe you could get some work helping them with site material for their systems.
LHCoffey: hey, take a look and see what you think, Dan.....is it OK to call you Dan?
LHCoffey: I like getting my art out for sure. I just got a show at the local borders yesterday
Daniel O'Leary: Sure thing, LH...Mik, I just posted the message to the Mac client support area.
LHCoffey: I've got to go, but, hey, come and look at my Mac User Group, TMUG.ORG and the BBS, OK?
Daniel O'Leary: Dan it fine too. I don't know why I keep writing my name out.
Daniel O'Leary: Will do LH.
Daniel O'Leary: Dan is...
LHCoffey: I want a way to get to ALL TeleFinder boards, but I keep screwing them up. Still, I know more than most, I've found. I do the "BRUTE FORCE" method of learning. I screw it up and fix it. I paint the same way
Daniel O'Leary: is the BBS on the net?
LHCoffey: TMUG.ORG is and you can go to the board from there
LHCoffey: and if you get on AOL, there is old software that allows you to get on from TeleFinder, I've seen it
Daniel O'Leary: LH, want a copy of my settings file?
LHCoffey: and the name of the webmaster is Linda10001@aol.com.
LHCoffey: yes, please send. Would that be e mail?
LHCoffey: I want ALL board. I LOVE BBS
LHCoffey: s
Daniel O'Leary: you can get there from web at http://kz.eaze.net.
LHCoffey: I jus can't afford to call all over the country
Daniel O'Leary: grin.
LHCoffey: just pasted it. Got to go! Be well!
LHCoffey: please check out board and web site!
Daniel O'Leary: see you!
mikael fredriksson: I think its time to log out....
Daniel O'Leary: Hmm. Maybe I need to save this chat and send to Bob Nunn who ducked in and out of here like RT did.
Daniel O'Leary: Okay, Will see you later.
mikael fredriksson: bye
Daniel O'Leary: Send RT a note asking if he'll be in on Thurs.