TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, March 13, 1998 11 AM PST.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,

Sysops: Josh Tegart, Bob Nunn, Bob Wright, Ken Sutherland, Jim Smith, Jonathan Paisley, Donald McHose

Telefinder User: Barbara McCoy

Rusty Tucker hola!
Josh Tegart I like that they are bold, but I wish TF recognized right after they were viewed that they are no longer new, and therefore displays the name with out the bold.
Bob Nunn You can tell Rusty when he gets in. He has been changing things a lot.
Josh Tegart Alright, thanks.
Rusty Tucker viewing what ?
Bob Nunn I am tickled with the try to replace option Rusty. Didn't expect it.
Rusty Tucker its great for Web site updates
Bob Nunn Yup!
Rusty Tucker Check out the new Transfer Log window , there's s gif in the Beta section
Josh Tegart Rusty, I was just talking about how I think new items should be set to viewed right after the user looks at them. Right now, once I user has seen a new item, they need to reconnect for it to show up as viewed. Sometimes even then it doesn't take effect.
Rusty Tucker The current version flags email once it's been read, the other icons are time based.
Josh Tegart I know you're probably focusing on Internet capabilities right now, but the automatic update of new/viewed items would make things a lot easier for my users, and me. Add possibly a modifier-click of items to set them as viewed? And all subitems if you clicked on a folder.
Bob Nunn My transfer rates are way up on b6 did you do something? I like the TLOG Multi Transfer?
Josh Tegart What is the time? That is, how long after being viewed does it take to update?
Rusty Tucker It doesn't have anything to do with being viewed.
Rusty Tucker If the item's mod date is within 24 hrs, or since the users last login time, it shows up as bold.
Josh Tegart Oh...I guess that puts a whole new spin on it, then. I thought it was like First Class where if you haven't seen it, it's bold. Once you have seen it, it's not bold.
Bob Wright I wish you could get TF User so when you delete multiple files, it does so all at once and not redraw the screen between each one, RT
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Donald!
Rusty Tucker No, the client doesn't keep a database of seen vs. unseen.
Josh Tegart Do you think you'll ever add that feature?
Rusty Tucker Its an interesting idea though.
Rusty Tucker What would make a file 'seen', downloading it, just showing its icon, or get info?
Josh Tegart Well...getting info would do it, I think.
Josh Tegart Because that means they have inspected it.
Bob Wright RT: if I have several emails I want to throw away at once, it does so one at a time
Rusty Tucker BTW - I'll be adding that TransferLog to TeleFinder User pretty soon.
Josh Tegart Or opening a topic, not necessarily seeing all the new messages. Because they at least were able to see that there were new messages...they just chose not to read them.
Bob Wright The screen redraws between each deletion
Josh Tegart And if you option-clicked say on an item, it is set as seen. And you clicked on a folder all it's subitems are set to seen.
Rusty Tucker BW - it almost has too since the deletions are done in the background.
Bob Wright RT: I thought it could be more like the finder and move them all to the trash at once.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Jim!
Rusty Tucker I need to thing about that Josh. The client side database of "seen" items might get very, very big.
Josh Tegart Alright. I'm an aspiring young CS student...let me see if I can think of a scheme. I'll run it by you. :)
Rusty Tucker Also, we might lose the "up the chain" reporting we have now. IE a "parent" folder would be tagged as having been seen, even though it might contain "unseen" items.
Rusty Tucker JT - start by looking at Netscape's link file.
Rusty Tucker We'd probably want to do something like that, expiring old ones out, and limiting the number that are tracked.
Josh Tegart Oh, good idea...I will.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Ken!
Bob Wright something like: you have read all new messages, do you want to read the next 25 old messages? Something like that, RT?
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Bob Wright RT: and I am still missing why the emails/files cant be deleted at the same time. Even in the background they could be deleted at once, right?
Ken Sutherland hi all, when i logged on there was no chat room? thought i had been bounced
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Bob!
Rusty Tucker I'll take a look at it BW
Ken Sutherland any chance of folder upload/download yet
Rusty Tucker There's a screen shot of the new Transfer Log window in the Beta folder.
Rusty Tucker It shows file icons, and % completion with the bar.
Josh Tegart Rusty, what kind of connection do you have to the Internet? This BBS, I mean.
Rusty Tucker Still in the works Ken
Rusty Tucker its 128k ISDN
Josh Tegart Ok, just trying to sort of gauge how well TF uses band width.
Ken Sutherland nice pic
Josh Tegart Pretty nicely, from my estimations. :)
Rusty Tucker There's not a lot of overhead
Ken Sutherland a year ago Chris showed us an idea for all nodes in 1 dialog, any further progress?
Bob Nunn The cache speeds things up a bit too Josh. Even on a modem net connect.
Rusty Tucker Did anyone get the latest user beta?
Ken Sutherland not yet
Josh Tegart Bob, cache is a good thing. :)
Rusty Tucker I put the "Option key" open tunneling into it.
Josh Tegart Rusty, b6? I'm running it right now.
Donald McHose KS: how is the new mail-pi beta,s working out ?
Bob Nunn I did. Very happy with the improvements. Like the ability to select my helpers and if they are on or not.
Rusty Tucker You can still use the control key to "show only bold" items.
Ken Sutherland anyone been loosing outgoing mail in last few days
Bob Nunn Cool I was afraid we had lost that feature. I use it sometimes on large dirs.
Donald McHose Well I was trying to get it ( new client) but it quit 90% thru just now ;-(
Josh Tegart What is this about option and control?
Bob Wright RT: I am sure I am overlooking something, but how can I keep MS logs around longer than three days?
Josh Tegart Hold them down while opening folders? That's not doing anything for me.
Rusty Tucker TeleFinder will "tunnel" into folders ( close the parent ) when you use it.
Ken Sutherland DM, did you get the latest posting a few days ago
Rusty Tucker Except for the "desktop" window
Josh Tegart Oh, that's right...I new about that. :) like the finder.
Josh Tegart I see...and control displays all new items and folders. Alright, I lied...it works. :)
Rusty Tucker it also supports the "Command Down Arrow" to open items
Rusty Tucker I'm still working on "command up"
Ken Sutherland RT lately i have noticed ms needing an increased amount of processor time, is it a big job for multi threading?
Donald McHose KS:I believe so .I'm now running the latest pi.So far no complaints from my end.I did ask for feedback,but you know how that goes.
Rusty Tucker KS - nothing has changed in MS that should cause it to use more CPU
Ken Sutherland DM, for the last few days we have lost outgoing email so if Jon has mailed anything it has disappeared
Bob Wright RT: I am sure I am overlooking something, but how do I get MS to keep logs longer than three days?
Bob Nunn Did you look at the MS logs Ken to see what was happening?
Ken Sutherland RT i notice when sending Pop3 mail from a listserver the speed difference when the ms is front rather than the server is much faster
Ken Sutherland BN, yup, they get to SI and disappear
Rusty Tucker KS - that's because the OS gives the Front App most of the CPU
Bob Nunn Rusty has your address spam filtered?
Rusty Tucker :)
Bob Nunn ;-)
Ken Sutherland we have had to change our outgoing mail route(about 30 min.s ago) so will monitor
Ken Sutherland i know
Rusty Tucker - err, "allegedly" get to SI
Josh Tegart Ah, joy...Apple's idea of multitasking. heh
Bob Wright haha
Ken Sutherland why not merge ms and tf server then
Josh Tegart I don't think that's a good idea.
Donald McHose KS: sorry to hear that.I have not received anything directly from HL (snail or other wise) within the last few.
Josh Tegart Some people don't want MS.
Rusty Tucker KS still owes me the logs to show it and track it
Bob Wright RT: MS logs going back longer than three days <== is that possible?
Josh Tegart Modularity is the way to go. Just my opinion. :)
Ken Sutherland resedit is a great tool
Rusty Tucker I think Chris hardwire the 3 day rolling
Ken Sutherland cint
Rusty Tucker it seems short to me too
Bob Wright RT: well, I had a student email a hate message to a teacher. The detectives wanted to see the proof the student sent the email. The event took place longer than then three days so I am out of luck there :-(
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Bob Wright RT: can you check on increasing that log time?
Josh Tegart Just unerase the actual message. I had to do that sort of thing once.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Bob!
Donald McHose BW: how was the mail received,Pop3 ?
Josh Tegart Or unerase the log if MS deletes them and creates new ones.
Ken Sutherland cint 29002
Ken Sutherland change to 28 days if you want
Bob Wright DM: the mail came from the internet outside of the BBS. The teacher does not have his email stored as POP3
Rusty Tucker More than three day have usually elapsed before i notice a problem too.
Josh Tegart BW, but the teacher saved the message, right?
Bob Wright I am looking for an AUTOMATIC way...I know I can always go in and remove the file every day, but when you have a school system to run, you can not keep giving yourself things to do
Bob Wright JT: no, the teacher erased it by mistake.
Josh Tegart I'm not sure what kind of headers TF uses, but can't you prove where it came from with the message itself?
Josh Tegart Oh, well in that case you might be able to unerase on from your drive.
Rusty Tucker I think I'll change it to not delete the files, so that it is consistent with the other apps
Bob Wright RT: and USER Logs shows where the teacher erased it, but the email only contains the first part of the person's name. it got cut off...anyway to increase that info?
Josh Tegart Um...I'll try that in English. Unerase it since it was one your drive, in their mail folder.
Donald McHose JT: Norton to the rescue.
Josh Tegart :)
Rusty Tucker I don't get it. Just because she -got- mail from someone doesn't prove diddly.
Bob Wright RT: but we want to see where the email came from and INVESTIGATE :)
Rusty Tucker You need the full message, then you'll have the headers that show how it got there.
Bob Nunn Bob W. Write an applescript to move the files and save it as an application and have ms run it.
Bob Wright RT: anyway to get the USER Logs to say more than "User deleted email from mike <" that is just quite not long enough
Rusty Tucker It only logs the actual file name.
Bob Wright Bob N: good idea, but I like to have as little running on the server as possible :)
Rusty Tucker That should be enough.
Josh Tegart It would be too much to put the full headers in the log.
Bob Wright Well, it looked like it was trying to put the email address in, but got cut off, hence the "mike <" line
Rusty Tucker + there would need to be special case handling for different file types, a big mess
Rusty Tucker no, that's just the file name
Bob Wright ok, I thought it was trying to show "mike " and got cut off
Rusty Tucker the file name is created based on the "from" address to help make it unique, then it's mangled from there to insure that it is unique
Bob Wright Oh I see......
Bob Nunn On the new transfer log. What type of file will they be stored as?
Rusty Tucker what store as?
Bob Nunn Xfer log will they be gif format?
Josh Tegart Rusty, what do you think about this idea (it's a little old-school, but heck..bbser's still want it): door games. I was thinking you could basically alter the chat room a little so it didn't show in and out. And so it doesn't send user name to the display when they enter something. Then people could make real applications that just write to
Josh Tegart some file on the server that the chat room references.
Josh Tegart Could add IRC through that interface too.
Rusty Tucker JT - you should be able to do that now through the Chat Extensions
Bob Wright RT: anyway of getting the .siUserManager program to list the Access Groups as a pop-up menu when you add new users?
Josh Tegart Really? Cool...I'll have to look into that.
Josh Tegart Do chat rooms support ANSI?
Rusty Tucker You;d have to bring your own UI
Donald McHose RT: I second & third BW's request.
Bob Wright RT: I mean can .siUserManager look at the access group and then list them as a pop-up menu so you can choose one and hit CHANGE :)
Josh Tegart I think I'll make an IRC "door" then. Are you interested in that? I can keep you updated, if you like.
Rusty Tucker Me too, I hardwired a pop-up for my own UMPI
Rusty Tucker u bet
Bob Wright alright...I get something!! ;-)
Bob Wright *fireworks*
Bob Wright keep asking and they will build it ;-)
Josh Tegart Great. Did you say chat rooms do support ANSI?
Rusty Tucker no, you need to make your own window if you want specialized graphics.
Rusty Tucker Transfer Log - it will be a regular window, just like it is now
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Jonathan!
Bob Wright its time for tennis...see ya later everyone...look forward to the popup menus, RT! ;)
Rusty Tucker the file on the server is just a screen shot
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Josh Tegart Oh, ok.
Josh Tegart Where can I get info on chat extensions?
Bob Nunn Was thinking I can serve that file from my Admin. Thought the graphics would not work over the web unless??
Rusty Tucker right now you need to walk through the AppleScript samples to see how it works
Rusty Tucker BN- its for TeleFinder User, TeleFinder User will have its own Transfer Log window
Rusty Tucker just like the server does
Bob Nunn gotcha not a log.
Donald McHose RT: some have to crawl first )
Jonathan Paisley hi
Bob Nunn Hey Jon
Donald McHose What's new Jon?
Rusty Tucker I'll probably keep a log of the transfers too on the client side. Its nice to be able to look back and see that you actually did what you thought you did!
Jonathan Paisley what're we talking about?
Rusty Tucker + I'll be adding the full path name to the files, not just the file and folder name in the log file.
Josh Tegart So I can just communicate all the chat commands through Apple Events from a real program, not just a script, right?
Rusty Tucker all kinds of ****
Rusty Tucker yep JT, just register AE handlers for your app for those events.
Rusty Tucker Why do you want and ANSI screen?
Josh Tegart Well, I was thinking BitchX style IRC.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the Chat Room chat Barbara!
Josh Tegart If you're familiar with that. It's a Unix client.
Rusty Tucker uh uh..
Barbara McCoy Hi I am just trying to see what is wrong.
Jonathan Paisley I downloaded the contents of the 'Chat' folder, but nothing there seems to be to do with these new handlers. Is it in the TFUser archive?
Rusty Tucker but i do have an ANSI screen lying around.
Rusty Tucker yes, its with TeleFinder User.
Rusty Tucker Barbara, you mean how to fix what is wrong?
Josh Tegart What do you mean you have one lying around? :) Code for one you mean?
Rusty Tucker Yes, its the old code from TeleFinder Pro, i recycled it into a Console window for Code Warrior
Barbara McCoy I don't know ,
Josh Tegart Would you mind if I took a look at the code? As long as it doesn't violate copyright or give away company secrets anything. :)
Barbara McCoy What is going on? How did we get you?
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Bob Nunn Confuzed User??
Rusty Tucker lemme see if I can put something together JT
Rusty Tucker i think so
Josh Tegart Alright, thanks a lot.
Donald McHose Did you link all the chat rooms RT ? ;-)
Rusty Tucker Anything else before we wrap up?
Josh Tegart One quick thing...does TFNet exist anymore?
Donald McHose Well gots to run for work.thanx for the updates RT.JP, post anything new ! bye.
Bob Nunn Need the logs Rusty like them HTML chat logs.
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Rusty Tucker Yes, but its closed to new entrants for the time being.
Rusty Tucker I don't' have enough bandwidth.... we need to get TFNet more distributed, get some more hubs
Josh Tegart I think I'm still on it unless old bbses get deleted. Who is maintaining it?
Rusty Tucker I am, in my spare time :)
Josh Tegart Well, I need to get a dedicated line, then I'd be interested in hubbing.
Josh Tegart :)
Bob Nunn I would hub some Rusty.
Rusty Tucker BN- did you notice that you can disable Helper's now?
Josh Tegart Thanks a lot for all the info, Rusty. If you wouldn't
Josh Tegart 't mind could you send that code to jtegart@picoweb.com when you get a chance?
Jim Smith RT: just not problem with view profile
Bob Nunn Yes very happy. I also reconfigured helpers via prefs. Much better.
Jim Smith not = noted
Rusty Tucker Ken, your system has not sent me any files since mar 8
Rusty Tucker that's why you mail is not going out.
Rusty Tucker Track it down in your logs, and you'll probably find out what has happened to it.
Josh Tegart Gotta go. I'll be in touch, Rusty.
Josh Tegart bye
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Rusty Tucker ahh.. Netcom is bouncing you guys.
Jonathan Paisley why doesn't it come back to us then
Jonathan Paisley ?
Rusty Tucker (SMTP Client) 550 ... we do not relay
Rusty Tucker 3/13/98 1:12:59 AM (SMTP Client) Recipient rejected temporarily
Jonathan Paisley I don't know that address; looks like a subscriber to a list server we're running perhaps?
Rusty Tucker yes, i think so
Bob Nunn There are a lot of people adding filters right now. My ISP filtered me for a few days even though I have his address range. We finally got it fixed.
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Jonathan Paisley Anything that can be done about it?
Rusty Tucker I'll need to get with netcom, for the time being, send your mail via a different route.
Jonathan Paisley OK, we're doing that now.
Jonathan Paisley Any reason why it hasn't bounced though?
Ken Sutherland hiya
Rusty Tucker Mail Server isn't always too swift on handling delivery errors.
Jonathan Paisley Is there any way to get MS to outgoing SMTP on a port other than 25?
Jonathan Paisley I'm thinking of running EIMS on the same machine, and setting it on some other port...
Ken Sutherland RT, log files in your mailbox
Ken Sutherland JP, nice idea
Rusty Tucker yes, you can change it's connection settings in the "CSTR" resource.
Jonathan Paisley ahh, cool.
Ken Sutherland brb
Jonathan Paisley I must go, cya later!
Rusty Tucker c-ya
Bob Nunn See ya.
Rusty Tucker c-ya