Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, June 9, 1998 11 AM PDT.

In attendance:

From SpiderIsland: Rusty Tucker

Sysops: Bob Nunn, mikael fredriksson, Jim Smith, Bill Gram-Reefer, Jim Leary, Michael Davidson, Daryl Hansen

Rusty Tucker hola!
Bob Nunn : Hey!
mikael fredriksson : Hi!
Jim Smith : Hi!
Rusty Tucker Hi -- I'll have a b20 release for more BIAP chat fixes later today
Bob Nunn : I downloaded it and applied for the demo key. Figure I will try it out later this week.
Bob Nunn : Don't know if it will be worth $129 bucks to me though. Don't get that much use out of version 1.0
Rusty Tucker I have not discovered how to put chat rooms in a realm yet. Do you know?
Bob Nunn : Hadn't thought on it.
Rusty Tucker it would be great if they could be made by paths, put it doesn't seem to work that way/
Rusty Tucker < b19 has a problem changing the settings info.
Bill Gram-Reefer joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Bill!
Rusty Tucker It seems that Chat 1.0 should work OK if you leave its window closed.
Bill Gram-Reefer : can't stay long
Rusty Tucker otherwise, you need to get 2.0.1
Rusty Tucker Hey Bill -- any quick Q's today?
Bob Nunn : I will have to try that. Never dawned on me.
Bill Gram-Reefer : yeah, about TFUser b12
Bill Gram-Reefer : the chat extension folder and little scripts just go in the TF folder right?
Rusty Tucker TeleFinder doesn't use the folder, you can run the scripts from anywhere.
Bill Gram-Reefer : and I put Navigation ext. into ext folder. so give me something to do to see what this does?
Rusty Tucker ic
Rusty Tucker The Open Command, Attach Files, Save as etc.
Bob Nunn : Open a mail message and send an attachment from here now.
Rusty Tucker that is the "Open..." command
Bob Nunn : What will the show preview handle?
Bill Gram-Reefer : I see, so why are there two "open" commands one of which doesn't seem to work?
Rusty Tucker "Open" opens selected icons.
Bill Gram-Reefer : duh
Bill Gram-Reefer : OK, this seems like some things that heck, I just don't normally go there so will play with it
Rusty Tucker no prob -- its only in the documentation :)
Bill Gram-Reefer : that covers my ??? so I'll shut up now
Michael Davidson joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Michael!
Michael Davidson : hi giz
Rusty Tucker Show Preview will cause thumbnails to show up, and the top few lines of text files.
Bill Gram-Reefer : guise?
Bob Nunn : I notice it will preview text and not email. Haven't played with it much.
Michael Davidson : guys
Rusty Tucker In a fancy implementation, the prog could provide previews on demand for its own private file types.
Bob Nunn : Kinda cool. Makes it easier to find what you are looking for if you aren't sure of the filename.
Rusty Tucker .. phaze 2 of implementing nav services...
Rusty Tucker Sure, for settings files, I could display the address and login name for example.
Rusty Tucker email, to, from, subject.
Bob Nunn : Are they considering simple find commands?
Rusty Tucker WYSIWYG
Bill Gram-Reefer : bullshit wysiwyg or real wysiwyg
Rusty Tucker That would be nice, also "recent servers" would be nice. But you can roll your own using the bookmarks
Rusty Tucker -- uh, more like " it is what it is "
Rusty Tucker I don't know of any planned enhancements to nav services.
Michael Davidson : and, for my sake, exactly what is it?
Bob Nunn : I would like to see what a real novice thinks of it. I know that one of the top questions I get for new users is where'd it go? Anything to make it easier for them is an aid.
Rusty Tucker True, the 'full path' is not explicitly shown.
Rusty Tucker Also, there is not an "up one level" button, you need to use "command -up arrow "
Michael Davidson : are you talking about nav services that are in b19?
Rusty Tucker I'd like to see at least the drive icon next to the location menu.
Rusty Tucker TeleFinder user B12, yes. They are apple's nav services.
Rusty Tucker It will be part of 8.5(?) and Carbon
Michael Davidson : That has needed fixing since forever
Michael Davidson : Why not have a finder like interface to the dialog box I wonder
Michael Davidson : with little folders and triangles that open folders
Rusty Tucker too "Windows-ish"?
Rusty Tucker That's in there MD
Michael Davidson : grooooooovy...
Rusty Tucker no "By Icon" view tho. You need Win95 for that
Rusty Tucker Also, in Win 95 you can Rename and Delete while you're in there.
Michael Davidson : The Finder interface is what new user's can grasp, new users never get the old standard save dialog box
Michael Davidson : what is min system req'd for the nav extensions
Rusty Tucker 76?
Rusty Tucker for sure 8.0, 8.1
Michael Davidson : unrelated ? (but an easy one)...
Bill Gram-Reefer : got to run (literally)
Bill Gram-Reefer left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Bill Gram-Reefer
Michael Davidson : it used to be the first node open was the node that sent outgoing Internet stuff, but then we now have the option of setting that, right?
Michael Davidson : where do I set it, I forgot!
Rusty Tucker Yes, you can spec the node from inside of Mail Server. In the TFNet gateway options
Michael Davidson : Thanks, done!
Michael Davidson : what should govern how many TCP nodes one uses?
Rusty Tucker TeleFinder license? :)
Michael Davidson : o, that was a second ? (sorry)
Rusty Tucker for real...
Rusty Tucker bandwidth, memory, usage patterns
Michael Davidson : per node, how much memory should be given TFServer?
Rusty Tucker It depends a lot on your specific needs, like is it more important to provide fast transfers, or more important to get connected, even if there are already many users online
Rusty Tucker Something like 125K per node.
Michael Davidson : a balancing act then, I get the idea
Michael Davidson : Thanks
Bob Nunn : You know I wish that you would write a memory usage guideline. I have seen you do this many times but also suggest what to do if you have lots of memory.
Rusty Tucker There's a formula of sorts, either in the docs or in the upgrade notes.
Michael Davidson : yeah, my memory always fails me on the memory requirements stuff! :)
Rusty Tucker Since 5.6, TeleFinder does the math and bitches when starting up Web Threads too.
Bob Nunn : I have seen that but it really only gives you minimal requirement type suggestions. Many of us have tons of memory. What would you do. Give more to Mail Server for example.
Rusty Tucker Plug-ins can still be a problem tho.
Rusty Tucker I see.
Michael Davidson : throw memory at any and all problems Bob, like the gov does
Bob Nunn : Theoretical Optimization Memory Guide? Memory is cheap again.
Rusty Tucker You can give more memory to TF, but it shouldn't matter too much.
Rusty Tucker Again, Web Server plug ins may use memory, so an allowance needs to be made there.
Bob Nunn : I have 10 to TFS and double on MS and UM.
Michael Davidson : you could always give memory to the needy bob
Bob Nunn : I take it that giving 20 to TFS would not be a benefit likely. Best to leave it open?
Rusty Tucker Always need extra Ram for BBEdit :)
Jim Smith : MD: Now you sound like the gov.
Bob Nunn : Well it apparently works okay but you know us old hot rodders, always looking for that extra performance.
Rusty Tucker ( need to upgrade that -PPP- connection then ! )
Michael Davidson : thanks Jim :(
Michael Davidson : What is the most beneficial reason(s) to move my server to OS 8.1 from 7.5.3?
Bob Nunn : Most of it will probably be used up in the next system upgrade ;-)
Rusty Tucker 753 sux?
Rusty Tucker There ya go BN.
Bob Nunn : Everyone should have to go through a lot of grief to have the latest OS why should you be different.
Michael Davidson : OT 1.3?
Michael Davidson : LOL Bob
Bob Nunn : Yup kinda 1.3 is a big help except for that one little bug
Jim Smith : Some people like to stay one version behind ;O
Rusty Tucker You could 'loan' it to me if you want. I've got 24 MB on my server, Vm'd up to 36 to make everything fit :(
Rusty Tucker Its running 761 w/ OT 1.3 -
Bob Nunn : Got lots of 72 pin SIMMS from upgrading people. Only 8's though. Work well in my 8100 clone.
Michael Davidson : why isn't it running 8.1 RT; is it because 8.1 sux :)
Rusty Tucker its "not proven" yet :)
Bob Nunn : If you got big drives the 8.1 formatting is a big help. Saves lots of space so you aren't forces to partition as much.
Michael Davidson : I have NO intention of going HFS+ for quite some time
Rusty Tucker brb
Rusty Tucker I'll be right back!
Jim Leary joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Jim!
Bob Nunn : I have partially. I have yet to move my boot drive. Holding out for Norton to catch up. I have several machine here running it though.
Michael Davidson : Can I get a response on what MacOS everybody here is running on their TF Server?
Bob Nunn : 8.1 on Headgap and Wang's
Michael Davidson : 7.5.3
mikael fredriksson : 8.1
Jim Smith : 8.0 on TF server.
Jim Leary : 8.1
Michael Davidson : Any pitfall to avoid in moving my non-ppc server to 8.1?
mikael fredriksson : System 8.1 is the
mikael fredriksson : the last for non PPC Macs
Bob Nunn : I think there is a problem with an 040 Mac and an HFS+. The main reason I went up to it was for the speed improvements due to more native code for PPC and the drive space.
Rusty Tucker Id stay with 7.6.1 on 040's
Rusty Tucker better yet, dump the '040 and upgrade to PPC
mikael fredriksson : BN you can´t boot from a HFS+ on a 040
Michael Davidson : Those are both good reasons Bob, but not applicable to my situation
Rusty Tucker I can't think of any improvements in 8.x that really apply to 040's...
Bob Nunn : I think if I was on an 040 I would stick with 7.6.1 and OT 1.3 although you may have to kludge it to install it.
Michael Davidson : OT 1.3 is the main reason I have for wanting to upgrade
Michael Davidson : mikael, for sure has it been determined 8.1 last for non-ppc?
Rusty Tucker I'd be wary of running any of the new stuff on an 040, I doubt there is any real testing on 68k code beyond the smoke test.
Daryl Hansen joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Daryl!
Bob Nunn : The beta of OT 1.3 will install. I tried installing 1.3 from the new disk and it won't take it. I understand that you can change the versions with ResEdit to trick it into installing.
Michael Davidson : Really RT, that surprises me, but I don't really doubt you either
mikael fredriksson : Its in the readme in System 8.5
mikael fredriksson : Compatibility information • Computers with 68040 processor upgrade cards Computers upgraded to 68040 with a processor upgrade card are not supported by Mac OS 8.
Michael Davidson : on 7.6.1 you mean Bob
Bob Nunn : yes
Jim Leary left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Jim Leary
Daryl Hansen : RT, Is Apple Script part of Apple Events?
Michael Davidson : (I don't have a 040 upgrade card mikael)
Jim Smith : ???? I am running a C650 with a PPC card and system 8.0
Michael Davidson : Jim, I'm running a 650 too, but without the PPC card
Daryl Hansen : or visa versa?
Rusty Tucker AppleScript is a Scripting application. It uses Apple Events.
Jim Smith : Does that mean if I crash they won't come and fix it ;)
Daryl Hansen : Ah, thanx for clearing that up for me :)\
Rusty Tucker any last Q's before we wrap up?
Bob Nunn : Save me the log. See you Friday thanks!
Daryl Hansen : RT, one question?
Rusty Tucker yep
Michael Davidson : how's talks with the db people coming RT
Daryl Hansen : please :)
Rusty Tucker db?
Michael Davidson : dbase
Daryl Hansen : Do you think TF will support Power Key Pro in the future?
Jim Smith left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Jim Smith
Rusty Tucker Yes, 5.7 will come with a Power Key plug-in.
Rusty Tucker Bob was (is? ) testing it.
Michael Davidson : Daryl is a happy camper!
Rusty Tucker It support the application Tickle Timer.
Bob Nunn : I pulled it when I started having trouble. Haven't reinstalled it. Would like to be using it regularly though.
Daryl Hansen : Cool!
Daryl Hansen : Sleep is on the horizon!
Rusty Tucker It's PowerPC only.
Michael Davidson : boo
Rusty Tucker You want to try it out D?
Rusty Tucker I'll put it in the beta area.
Daryl Hansen : PKPro love to restart my machine for no reason at all.
Daryl Hansen : YA!
Rusty Tucker Not sure if this will change that!
Daryl Hansen : Okay cool.
Bob Nunn : Does mine as well Daryl, that is why I had hopes.
Daryl Hansen : Hehe, Okay, at least I can send you some MacsBugs logs
Michael Davidson : Bob, did you think the plug-in was causing the trouble and that's why you pulled it?
Daryl Hansen : Will the tickler restart the machine if Just the TFS quits?
Bob Nunn : At the time yes, but I have a lot of other software installed. I pulled it and things seem to improve. It could be non related I really should have tried it again.
Rusty Tucker DH - PowerKey has an application defined timer, you set the event there.
Daryl Hansen : Cool!
Rusty Tucker You tell PowerKey what to do when the Application Defined Timer runs out, or something like that.
Daryl Hansen : I saw those instructions in the WS4D manual. MDG has good support for the PowerKey
Bob Nunn : I have mine set at the max. Daryl That way something that interrupts the processor hard doesn't trip it up.
Daryl Hansen : Ah..
Bob Nunn : Seems to be a bit more forgiving if you are pulling newsgroups or backing up using retro.
mikael fredriksson left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya mikael fredriksson
Bob Nunn : Bye
Bob Nunn left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Bob Nunn
Michael Davidson : bye all, thanks Rusty
Rusty Tucker ok see ya
June 9, 1998 -- ©Copyright 1998, Spider Island Software