TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, July 28, 1998 11 AM PDT.

In attendance:

From SpiderIsland: Rusty Tucker

Sysops: Daniel O'Leary, Jim Leary, Rodolfo, Ken Sutherland, mikael fredrikson, Bob Nunn

Rusty Tucker hola!
Daniel O'Leary joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Daniel!
Daniel O'Leary : Am I late?
Rusty Tucker Hi, I was too
Jim Leary joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Jim!
Rusty Tucker Don't know if any one else showed earlier
Daniel O'Leary : I have taken that script offline. I think it was causing missed calls.
Jim Leary : Why is the system such a turtle today
Daniel O'Leary : I know that it really bogs things down after a file xfer.
Rusty Tucker huh?
Daniel O'Leary : The Process File Upload script was bogging the system down.
Jim Leary : I've been checking in for about 20 minutes...no one else. they probably all left when it took so long to get in
Jim Leary : Its been that way for a couple days
Daniel O'Leary : It caused a lockup last night when Jim was on my site last night.
Jim Leary : no problem Dan...I had work and sleep to do
Daniel O'Leary : It is 105 here and my air-conditioning has failed.
Jim Leary : Is it an Apple
Daniel O'Leary : There will not be a repairman available until Thursday.
Daniel O'Leary : No Jim, my Mac is working just fine in the heat.
Jim Leary : Oh I thought the "supreme" and "almighty" Apple made air conditioners too
Daniel O'Leary : I have shut down all the other CPU's though... I suspect that the compressor has failed.
Jim Leary : and breaking down would be right in line with previous OSs
Daniel O'Leary : You mean like Windows NT?
Rodolfo joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Rodolfo!
Daniel O'Leary : Remember the YorkTown!!!!
Rodolfo : Hi there
Daniel O'Leary : Haha haha
Jim Leary : is it a new compact model at a special low price?
Jim Leary : for newcomers and novices
Daniel O'Leary : No, it was an Aegis Missile cruiser that had to be towed to port when its NT-based "smarts" died....RT, there appears to be a lot of overhead in scripts.
Jim Leary : maybe its the aCrap model sister to iCrap
Rodolfo : I'm testing TF but I have some problems with the mail server, could someone help?
Jim Leary : never used NT Dan
Jim Leary : don't have any arguments for or against
Daniel O'Leary : You will, Jim, your buddy Bill will make sure you must.
Jim Leary : No, I'm learning some new OS now
Daniel O'Leary : It is at the top of the WinHOZE food chain.
Jim Leary : I heard its best
Daniel O'Leary : Back to business... Scripts.
Daniel O'Leary : Why is there so much overhead on processing them.
Jim Leary : go ahead. I want to ask something later...get your stuff done first
Daniel O'Leary : CPU appears to die while they are running.
Daniel O'Leary : It is not dead, just frustratingly slow.
Rodolfo : Rusty, Do you know if I can run an e-mail server like EIMS in the same Mac as the TeleFinder?
Daniel O'Leary : Not friendly to background apps either.
Daniel O'Leary : Rodolfo. What problem are you having with Mail Server?
Daniel O'Leary : I use it to pass mail and message posting on a variety of networks.
Rodolfo : I try to set up a web-based service but I can't conf right
Daniel O'Leary : TO do Web-based Email, you need another piece.
Daniel O'Leary : You need the plugin that Jon Paisley wrote.
Daniel O'Leary : it is called HDS Email.
Rodolfo : I have a demo of HDS plug in
Rodolfo : I have a permanent connection to Internet too
Daniel O'Leary : To activate it (the working version), you must enter a keycode. I have not played with the demo.
Rusty Tucker Yes, Rodolfo, with a little work it is possible.
Rusty Tucker -- well maybe
Daniel O'Leary : The plugin must be placed in the Plugins folder of TF server.
Rodolfo : I can right now send mail but I can't receive
Rusty Tucker I used EIMS, but on a different computer.
Rodolfo : it bounces
Daniel O'Leary : The server must be restarted, and you will need to correct the access group for your recipients.
Rusty Tucker To set it up on the same computer, you'd need to set EIMS to listen on a different port,
Rusty Tucker and for TeleFinder to send SMTP on that port too
Rusty Tucker Other wise there will be a conflict on TeleFinder's SMTP vs. EIMS servers.
Daniel O'Leary : Does your regular mail system work?
Rodolfo : It is possible to use only the TF mail server
Rusty Tucker No, TeleFinder needs another mailer to route outbound email
Rodolfo : Then how can I tell EIMS to send the e-mail to TF?
Rusty Tucker You don't.
Bob Nunn joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Bob!
Rusty Tucker You let TeleFinder accept incoming email, so it will be the prime server.
Rusty Tucker EIMS you setup to handle outbound.
Rodolfo : How?
Rodolfo : Why the incoming mail bounces
Rusty Tucker Run EIMS on a separate computer, and set TeleFinder to forward its mail there.
Rusty Tucker The normal MX records for your domain should point to the machine with TeleFinder.
Rusty Tucker The EIMS computer should not be in the MX records at all
Rodolfo : How can I set up this in the same computer
Rusty Tucker If mail is bouncing, its probably because EIMS is receiving it, not TeleFinder.
Daniel O'Leary : Look at the bounce msg. to see where.
Rusty Tucker I don't know for sure if you can on the same computer.
Jim Leary left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Jim Leary
Ken Sutherland joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Ken!
Rusty Tucker I don't see a way to move EIMS off the standard SMTP port..
Rodolfo : If I change the port number of EIMS, the TF will receive the mail?
Ken Sutherland : Hi all
Rusty Tucker You'd need to make sure that outgoing is still on the correct port.
Daniel O'Leary : Have not played with EIMS...I forward my mail to my uplink's server.
Rusty Tucker Then you'd need to make a ResEdit hack on TeleFinder to make it send on the same port that EIMS listens on
Rodolfo : Where can I found some docs about the TF mail server
Rodolfo : I can't do that I don't know how
Rusty Tucker It's more detail than we can go into here, its totally undocumented stuff.
Rodolfo : the problem is only in the incoming mail
Rodolfo : it make the outgoing correctly
mikael fredriksson joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat mikael!
mikael fredriksson left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya mikael fredriksson
Rusty Tucker Yes, the problem is easy to describe. The solution is much more complex if you only have one Mac to use.
Ken Sutherland left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Ken Sutherland
Rusty Tucker Why can't you install a small Mac for EIMS?
Rusty Tucker You are the ISP in this case?
Rodolfo : Yes
Rodolfo : I want to give my clients a free e-mail account via web
Rusty Tucker Why not install another Mac for EIMS?
Rodolfo : What kind of Mac do you think I need for about 5000 accounts, I have a G3 for the TF.
mikael fredriksson joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat mikael!
Rusty Tucker Any PowerPC should be able to hand the mail forwarding for 5000 accounts. Even a little 6100
Rusty Tucker We had a Quadra 700 doing more than that before!
Rodolfo : well I will test this way if I can't settings up in the same computer.
Rodolfo : When you will be here again?
Rusty Tucker It was handling 10,000 local accounts + mail routing for 100 other systems,
Rusty Tucker We're here Tues. 11 am, Thurs. 6 pm, pacific time
Rodolfo : I will see you next Thursday and I will tell you how I solve this problem
Ken Sutherland joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Ken!
Rodolfo : Thanks guys,
Rodolfo : bye
Rusty Tucker bye!
Rodolfo left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Rodolfo
Ken Sutherland : Hiya
Ken Sutherland : again
Rusty Tucker Hi Ken, have you heard from Jon recently?
Ken Sutherland : talked to him earlier today, why
Daniel O'Leary : I have not heard from Jon in months...
Rusty Tucker he has not responded to recent email
Ken Sutherland : oops, sorry. He is doing a lot of work on a Windows NT project and at times its hard even for me to get to him
Daniel O'Leary : Breaking and entering? (grin)
Daniel O'Leary : Or shutting down warships?
Ken Sutherland : you read the news also I c
Daniel O'Leary : I'm an avid reader of lots of stuff.
Rusty Tucker Just wondering if we'll see release version of web mail, and what he wants to do about FTP.
Daniel O'Leary : US Navy is now apparently "reconsidering" its choice of NT on those boats.
Bob Nunn : They can send out all of their drive names and paths with each email. Why wouldn't they use it???
Ken Sutherland : since you are talking direct to Jon its not for me to comment about FTP but as far as I know we have no immediate plans
Daniel O'Leary : Just wait until virus plague the mission planning systems.
Daniel O'Leary : And since that stupid admiral told the world what release version they froze it at, everyone will know how to hack it.
Daniel O'Leary : What an idiot!
Rusty Tucker :)
Daniel O'Leary : Same genre that bought into that crap.
Ken Sutherland : RT, keep hearing things about OT 1.5, have you heard what they will be adding?
Rusty Tucker 2.0? Its supposed to be on Allegro
Rusty Tucker Should have SNMP support
Bob Nunn : Perhaps it will be a bug free version of 1.5. Forget the added features.
Daniel O'Leary : RT, wasn't SNMP in MacTCP from day 1?
Rusty Tucker I believe so...
Ken Sutherland : oops, so it is 8.5b2 has 2.0b2
Rusty Tucker OT has been a friggin abortion, but its almost fixed now
Rusty Tucker don't get me started :) please!?
Daniel O'Leary : Just in time to change it to a real stack...
Ken Sutherland : what is carbon
Rusty Tucker carbon will support OT
Rusty Tucker for the same reasons that OT was picked to begin with, its much more capable in a mixed environment.
Rusty Tucker I'm not sure what the core will be yet.. Either sockets from Next, or OT Streams
Bob Nunn : I hear that Rhapsody is now Mac OSX Server
Ken Sutherland : sorry goto go, cu next week
Rusty Tucker Yeah, not sure what that means for the future other than they will continue to sell it.
Ken Sutherland left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Ken Sutherland
Daniel O'Leary : Locks out too many older CPUs...
Bob Nunn : Placate the people who invested in it. Sounds better than not.
Daniel O'Leary : Not all of us have G3 with PCI slots yet.
Daniel O'Leary : I am debating that versus picking up a used SGI now.
Bob Nunn : I been thinking about upgrading to 7.6.1 from 8.1 ;-)
Daniel O'Leary : The fact that no utility exists for recovering damaged HFS+ volumes has me questioning buying a large Mac server now.
Daniel O'Leary : TechTool pro 2.x does not do the job in many cases.
Rusty Tucker Is that right? I thought one of the tools worked now.
Rusty Tucker oh --
Rusty Tucker course, I don't believe in disk recovery anyway :)
Bob Nunn : Tech Tool has released there latest update that is supposed to fix what they said it did
Daniel O'Leary : You must fall back on it when you do not have a current backup.
Rusty Tucker I've never had good success.
Daniel O'Leary : I am also peeved about the Java VM performance on the Mac... We are WAY behind.
Daniel O'Leary : And I spoke to Gary Little about it. I did not hear anything encouraging.
Rusty Tucker who?
Daniel O'Leary : Gary Little is the head of Apple's Java development team.
Bob Nunn : My files drive has been solid on 8.1 but I don't have a lot of rewrites etc. I only use the 8.2 version of the ambulance on it. Still use non HFS system partitions and Norton 3.5.2.
Daniel O'Leary : Stay with HFS if you can Bob.
Daniel O'Leary : HFS+ is great if your drives never fail.
Daniel O'Leary : Or if you baby-sit the constant backups you'd need to live with it.
Bob Nunn : Knock on wood my file drive is 6 months old now. 8.4 gig with 2 gig open.
Daniel O'Leary : HFS+ does perform BETTER than HFS... but there must be utilities to work on the drives....
Rusty Tucker I've been running HFS + since Dec 3 -- 0 probs.
Daniel O'Leary : RT have you ever de-fragged?
Bob Nunn : I think Norton is pissed at Apple and are purposely dragging their feet.
Rusty Tucker nope
Daniel O'Leary : Frag problem is VERY BAD on my system, due to the large number of msg. areas and the high turnover.
Rusty Tucker I don't get that. You should have 0 frag problem.
Daniel O'Leary : The frag problem is bad.
Bob Nunn : The newsgroups will kill you that way if you don't defrag. The mail traffic is another helper.
Daniel O'Leary : Net-connected Message bases make it that way.
Daniel O'Leary : Remember the 21 MB Fido news packet I set you and Chris?
Daniel O'Leary : That was two days worth, BEFORE usenet.
Bob Nunn : How about 500 spam messages to one user....
Daniel O'Leary : These things really do frag the media.
Daniel O'Leary : Totally different situation than files-based systems.
Daniel O'Leary : This is prolly why you have not needed to defragment your HDs.
Bob Nunn : I best get back to it. Please send the log. See you Thurs.?
Rusty Tucker yep
Daniel O'Leary : And I cannot do that with HFS+/
Bob Nunn left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Bob Nunn
Rusty Tucker Since all the messages will fit within a single block, I don't see how it gets fragged.
Daniel O'Leary : They are appended, then deleted... stuff gets moved around from the import areas to the final destinations in the threads.
Daniel O'Leary : There is a lot of file I/O going on with networked areas.
Rusty Tucker yes, but what files are fragged?
Daniel O'Leary : The topic files for smaller message areas are only 2K.
Daniel O'Leary : The Topic files are medium sized areas are about 32K.
Daniel O'Leary : Some are about 50K, currently.
Daniel O'Leary : The frag problem is more at the message file level I think.
Rusty Tucker Even the maximum fragging should have very little effect on performance.
Rusty Tucker The message files themselves cannot be fragged since they are smaller than the allocation block size.
Daniel O'Leary : I noticed the difference between the speed before and after copying the message partition over to a freshly formatted drive.
Daniel O'Leary : reformatting the partition and moving it back.
Daniel O'Leary : The difference was not due to drive speed differences since I moved it right back into the partition. This dangerous practice is the only way I can reorganize the drive now.
Rusty Tucker time for me to go
Daniel O'Leary : I have deactivated Usenet because of the problem.
Rusty Tucker It would be interesting to see what Norton says about the fragmentation.
Daniel O'Leary : Okay... See you later.
Rusty Tucker bye